Posted by Signing service needs help on 5/5/05 2:31pm
Msg #36043

Signing service needs advice

As a notary, what do you guys think would be fair? I want to be fair... I had a notary do two signings for me last month, all went well. $75 each. Then, her third signing with me, she went to the signing with docs cut off on the right and left side margin. I personally went over this issue with her, because we know the title company scans docs in too big. I told her how to shrink to fit. she printed docs, no call to me, signed the docs, and sent them off. I get an angry call from the title co. docs have to be resigned, notary hems and haws...doesnt want to resign package, doesnt get it done. three days later, I have to pay another notary to drive to the wife, and then to the husband two hours away to sign. I had to pay $350, to the new notary for her trouble and drive. I had to waive the fee to the client, who was also in hot water with her client. Now, I have lost $350.00. Do I pay the notary for her previous signings and bill her for her cost to me??? Or do I again, just eat it. What do you guys think is fair?

Reply by Anonymous on 5/5/05 2:36pm
Msg #36044

Never use that notary again.

Reply by Philem on 5/5/05 2:38pm
Msg #36045

You had explained the issue about oversized docs, and how to correct it. The notary did not correctly follow procedure. Notary's fault, notary's bill. Yes, it sucks. No, it doesn't *seem* fair. But, the notary was in error, and declined to correct the issue. If you don't want to bill the notary for your full expense, simply pay the notary for their actual notarizations, explain why you are witholding travel/handling fees, and do not use that notary again.

Rough situation. No easy solution. You have my sympathies.
-Jim

Reply by VA_Notary on 5/5/05 2:44pm
Msg #36046

Well did you pay the first notrary,i.e., the one before the resigning? If not DON'T. But you cannot charge her for the resigning.

Reply by The Source on 5/5/05 2:48pm
Msg #36050

The independent nature of the work makes the correctly done deals payable and the incorrect not.

Reply by Joan-OH on 5/5/05 2:46pm
Msg #36048

Not to defend this notary, but I think the real issue is why doesn't a title company scan them right in the first place. In my opinion, they were asking for this problem. We shouldn't have to fix their docs on our end.

Joan-OH

Reply by Nd_WA on 5/5/05 2:54pm
Msg #36054

Correct me if I'm wrong, you paid that notary $75 for each edoc signing?

Reply by Stephen_VA on 5/5/05 2:48pm
Msg #36049

The earlier signings are a completely seperate matter. As an IC that distinction is *probably* a legal one as well.

The other one is less clear to me, since we don't really know the particulars. If it is exactly as you describe, then the mistake seems to have cost you money. Is the $350 worth the trip to court it would probably actually take to get the money? If a day of your time in court is worth more than $350..... then take a deep breath and forget about it.

Reply by Kim_NJ on 5/5/05 2:52pm
Msg #36051

I feel for you and admire that you want to be fair. However I don't think you will actually get her to pay for the resiging without an appearance in court, and even then, think it would be a tough argument.

While I hate defending people who cannot follow simple instructions, I have to say the printing issue really is not her fault - that is the fault of the title company...maybe you need to speak with someone at the title company to train their people to properly scan documents...its not rocket science.

As much as it sucks, I think you have to pay her.

Reply by Signing service needs advice on 5/5/05 3:19pm
Msg #36065

Yes, I know the title company should scan docs in correctly, but they dont. At 400-500 signings a month, I can make the extra call to help get them printed correctly. I know mistakes happen, it is just frustrating to have to send a check to someone for previous work, who not only cost me money, but really put my relationship with a client in jeopardy. It takes so much to get a large title company to turn over their account to you.... and two or three errors, you can lose them.
I will pay her for the first two signings, and of course, never use her again. OUCH.... Thanks so much for your help.
The Notary Biz

Reply by FELLOW SIGNING SERVICE on 5/5/05 3:42pm
Msg #36073

I agree you have to pay notary for the completed jobs. I know how bad it hurts since you had to pay out of pocket for the notary mistake. I would love to say charge the notary, but we all know that is not worth the time and hassle. We have also lost client to notary mistakes such as no show, cutting of docs, and numerous other mistakes. Keeping a client happy is hard when you have little to no control of a notary. Maybe a SS beware list should be made if possible. Good luck with your situation and NEVER use that notary again!

Reply by signing service on 5/5/05 5:32pm
Msg #36107

Yes, I am having my webmaster build a site for signing service info as we speak. I think it is long overdue, and I am hoping it will help strenghten the business for the great notaries, and help us share info about the ones we should avoid. There are more great notaries than bad, but the bad ones make it so hard for everyone... tons of calls to follow up, faxing in docs... yuck.

Reply by CarolynCO on 5/5/05 10:31pm
Msg #36165

*Yes, I am having my webmaster build a site for signing service info as we speak. I think it is long overdue, and I am hoping it will help strenghten the business for the great notaries, and help us share info about the ones we should avoid. There are more great notaries than bad, but the bad ones make it so hard for everyone... tons of calls to follow up, faxing in docs... yuck. *

Why don't you come forward and state the name of your signing service? And while you're at it, state the name of the TC, because as I said previously, I don't have time to *perfect* the docs to print correctly, when it is the TC's job to scan them properly in the first place -- and I don't want to waste anyone's time (especially my own) by accepting an assignment with screwed up docs that I must fix before even printing for $75.

Reply by CarolynCO on 5/5/05 10:22pm
Msg #36162

*Yes, I know the title company should scan docs in correctly, but they dont. At 400-500 signings a month, I can make the extra call to help get them printed correctly. *

This excuse is not acceptable -- we, as NSAs, have to make sure we have all the i's dotted and the t's crossed on the loan docs. To say that the TC *should* scan the docs correctly, but they *don't* just doesn't fly. It is not our place, as NSAs, to dick around with the docs to get them to print correctly because they were not scanned correctly. Just curious, is the NSA getting paid any extra for cleaning up the TCs mistake?

Reply by Reggie on 5/5/05 10:48pm
Msg #36170

IMHO you should be able to get the money back or just not pay it. It cost you money and it is the notaries responsibility to check the docs to make sure they are correct before the signing. I think it would be the Notary who is at fault I hate to say. But, the Notary had the borrow sign docs that were not correct so that's the Notaries fault.

I would not use this notary again if she refused to correct her mistake and not do another signing to correct it. And you had to pay another notary to do the signing correctly.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by sue on 5/6/05 7:38am
Msg #36208

why does the title company scan the docs? if they'd just send the link there is one less place for errors to occur

Reply by CarolynCO on 5/6/05 8:01am
Msg #36210

Re: This is really irking me

**Yes, I know the title company should scan docs in correctly, but they dont. **

I am the owner of a secretarial service for attorneys and a perfectionist. What you are saying would be the same as me typing pleadings for an attorney -- he is waiting on me (and the documents) impatiently when his secretary receives my e-mail and the attached pleadings. But ah ha -- I should have typed them so all she had to do was click on the attached docs and print, put them in the attorney's hot little hands, who is fidgeting terribly by the way (if you've never seen an attorney fidget, it's not a pretty sight or sound) -- but no, I didn't do that -- that would have been too easy and practical. The secretary ends up having to tweak what I was hired to do.

My scenario is the same as yours. The employee at the TC is getting paid to scan CORRECTLY, but she/he doesn'tt. Now the ripple effect is in action. Signing agent must tweak the incorrectly scanned docs to print -- if they can't figure out on their own, then you become involved in talking them through it on the telephone because of the incompetence of the employee at the TC who never bothers asking how to scan the documents properly in the first place.

The fault of the signing agent was that she took the incorrectly printed docs to the signing instead of saying send me correctly scanned docs if you expect me to do this signing. Read the boards -- many of these people are not computer/printer savy and you are paying them $75 for an e-doc, printer tweaking signing -- in doing the calculations, you are paying them $50 for the signing and $25 for printer tweaking.

Reply by BrendaTX on 5/6/05 8:38am
Msg #36216

Re: This is really irking me

>> in the attorney's hot little hands, who is fidgeting terribly by the way (if you've never seen an attorney fidget, it's not a pretty sight or sound) <<

Eeeeek! The attorney fidget syndrome !!!!

I haven't thought of that for awhile...the only solution is to tell them to get back to their office until they are called to review the draft (and march!...now...pronto). Then there's that hanging over your shoulder and dictating while you type...and, them trying to review it on the computer monitor...make 12 changes...then take it back...and it's 5 minutes until docket call.

I need a Xanax just thinking about it.

Reply by CarolynCO on 5/6/05 11:23pm
Msg #36383

Re: This is really irking me

**Then there's that hanging over your shoulder and dictating while you type...and, them trying to review it on the computer monitor**

I'm the only legal secretary I know of that actually prefers to have an attorney hang over my shoulder, dictate, review from the screen and cut and paste. Even when they come to my own home office, it's just easier to do it work in this fashion. To me, it takes less time than. However, getting back to the incorrectly scanned e-docs and reading that the TC *should* scan correctly, but they *don't* and saying that's acceptable, is NOT acceptable -- the same as it's not acceptable for an attorney to hire me to type a pleading, and I send it as an e-mail attachment, only to have the attorney not be able to use it because I've formatted it improperly or inconsistently or in a program that I know they don't even have -- "I SHOULD have done it correctly, but, hey, I didn't -- but it's not my problem, because now you have it, and it's your problem!" If I operated my own secretarial business like this, I can assure you that I'd be out of business in no time flat.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 5/5/05 3:27pm
Msg #36067

Idea:SS correct and then send them out to notary

As a person who downloads edocs for 2 lenders, I know for a fact that the title co screws up bigtime. Even if the notary corrected the printing issue, this ultimately rests back with the title co. Sometimes, I find it unbelievable that title wants the loan to close but does things like scan in the wrong size, do not self-correct the issue, send the docs anyway, and then expect that the packet to be perfect.

Since I am computer literate (sold the stuff for years) I have come across alot of end users who are not as literate. Having a novice correct the page size may be like asking a novice to perform surgery, it will get done, but not done correctly.

As a signing service, if you are aware that these packages are kind of screwy, maybe it would be in your best interest to correct the documents before they are sent. This means, you have the title co send them to you, you correct margins and ensure that they should print correctly and then send them to the notary.

As and aside, $75 for an edoc is almost like getting it done for free. Just my .5 cent. Most of the lenders project $200 for the signing service.

Reply by Signing Service on 5/5/05 3:34pm
Msg #36069

Re: Idea:SS correct and then send them out to notary

We do almost 800 signings a month, and I dont have one client that pays $200.00 for a signing on a high volume account. I keep seeing these fees everywhere on the boards... I wish I had some of those clients.... I have a feeling those are onesy twosy deals where they pay that much....not to me... that is for sure.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I really appreciate it.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 5/5/05 4:33pm
Msg #36087

Re: Direct from lender can remit over $200 per signing

I don't deal with too many title co, I work direct with lenders who do volume and I accept and complete most of the deals in my neck of the woods. These are around 10-15 a month. Most lenders especially the brokers want to know when and if the loan is going to close. When they know the notary, a relationship of confidence can be established and as a notary you get their loyalty. Of course if I was to establish a ss, which I wouldn't, even if you gave me the keys to Fort Knox.

But I find that having a middle man to be a bit of a waste for me. I go direct to the lenders and see if they will use me exclusively, no matter what the title co may be. I got this strategy from SylviaFl's posts and it has been very lucrative so far. I also subcontract some of my signings to ensure that my lender is satisfied. So far this has been working very well for the last month. If there is a processor at the co who happens to be helpful, I get a personal one on one with the application and what needs to be completed and what should be in the packet.

SS are good, but my best strategy for getting most of the pie has come from reading the posts from other notaries who are sucessful in the biz. I especially love Pawfl and SylviaFl because if you read their posts carefully you can glean alot of useful information.

Reply by Signing service on 5/5/05 3:36pm
Msg #36070

Re: Idea:SS correct and then send them out to notary

Oh, as for correcting the docs... you have to fit to print, or fit to page anyway.... she would have cut off the legals even if I fit the right and left side margins.

Reply by Ali-IL on 5/5/05 3:37pm
Msg #36071

Re: Idea:SS correct and then send them out to notary

Yes this notary should not have had the borrowers sign these docs that were the wrong size.

But, it's not our job to make sure that these docs are sized correctly. That should come from you or the title company.

You as a service are responsible for that.

Reply by fellow signing service on 5/5/05 3:46pm
Msg #36074

Re: Idea:SS correct and then send them out to notary

We work with many title companies and the price range is from $150.00 to the clients that offer numerous signings and $225.00 to $250.00 to the few and far betwwen title companies!

Reply by Jen_TX on 5/5/05 3:56pm
Msg #36077

Re: Idea:SS correct and then send them out to notary

Notary Biz I have only had the pleasure of working with you once, but you are very clear in confirmation to notary to check margins. I also received a phone call to make sure margins were correct. I'm sorry some notaries don't take the time to read instructions or have time depending on the situation. However I would never have a borrower sign docs that were cut off!

Reply by signing service on 5/5/05 5:34pm
Msg #36109

Re: Idea:SS correct and then send them out to notary

Thanks Jen! Did you get paid for your signing fast! I am really trying to get the checks out in less than 30 days!

Reply by ssnotary on 5/5/05 5:39pm
Msg #36110

Notary made error, she should have corrected her work, her mistake, she was careless. It's very sad your out the large amount of money. Notary should have made good on her work. Shame on Notary.
Glad to assit you in the future.
[e-mail address]

Reply by Jon on 5/5/05 5:43pm
Msg #36111

After reading the posts, I must say that I disagree with those who said that the title co is at fault.

1. If you are told of the problem and how to fix it, you should. If you print the docs and the problem was not corrected by using the steps given, call back and say "That didn't work, what do you want me to do?" If you are not willing to do what is required for the job, in this case make sure the docs are printed correctly, don't accept it. By accepting the job you are accepting that you will need to deal with docs that are scanned incorrectly.

2. Any ignorant SA knows that the docs must be printed with all of the wording on them. Why would anyone with even a smidgeon(?) of common sense have borrower's sign docs that are cut off?

3. The SA should go out and correct what was obviously their mistake.

As for payment, pay for the first two, don't pay for the third. If it is worth the time to you to go to small claims, do that. Otherwise accept that as a SS you will sometimes have to eat it, part of the cost of doing business.

This opinion is making the assumption that the above scenario it true. Having worked for a SS, I have seen many similar situations, and this one would not surprise me. If there are other circumstances that have not been stated, then obviously my response may change as well.

Reply by signing service on 5/5/05 6:31pm
Msg #36122

Jon, Send me your email address... I have work for you!

WOO HOO!

Reply by Dave_CA on 5/5/05 8:26pm
Msg #36147

Well, since your offering work...

All kidding aside I do agree with Jon. We are supposed to be professionals and should take responsibility foe completing the job we contracted for.

Reply by Reggie on 5/5/05 10:59pm
Msg #36177

Since you are offering work please click on my orange dot and contact me if you have work in Kansas near me. Thank you.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/5/05 8:31pm
Msg #36149

Jon...

You're mean.

Reply by J / FL on 5/5/05 8:41pm
Msg #36152

You will never be able to collect $350. The most you could ever hope to collect is the difference between what you would have paid the first notary and what you had to pay. Even that will be an incredibly difficult road.

Reply by Stephen_VA on 5/6/05 7:31am
Msg #36207

Except they would have paid the first notary 0 to correct the first notaries own mistake... so $350.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/6/05 12:08pm
Msg #36253

I can't for the life of me figure out why the notary had docs that were cut off signed. Yes the tc should have properly scanned the docs, but the notary should have immediately called when she saw the docs so they could be rescanned properly.
Pay for the two properly completed jobs, no pay for the incorrect job, never use that notary again.

It may be a bit naive of me to think that this scenario sounds too bizare to have really happened. I only say that because on the second job I had when I recieved the docs the top 2 inches were cut off and my response was "I need correct docs please". 15 minutes later I had them. It would be nice to know the notaries side for purposes of information.

Reply by signing service on 5/18/05 7:05pm
Msg #38834

Sarah Beth,

I have no idea why a notary would not alert me....and I wish I could say that was the only time, however.... it happens at least once a month. It is not always that the docs are scanned in wrong, sometimes they are just printed wrong. Usually, though, the original notary will correct the mistake, and I am only out client confidence....not $350.00.

I have no reason to spend time asking for advice for something that I concocted myself. The notary admits that she made a mistake. Plain and simple.