Posted by jmaynotary_CA on 5/2/05 5:32pm
Msg #35375

Stumped on what to do...

I have to notarize a document for a student studying abroad, she has to sign the document and her parents have to sign the document. Her parents live out in Minnesota and we are in California. How should I go about getting these docs notarized?

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 5/2/05 5:39pm
Msg #35376

If the student is of legal age, notarize her signature, then have her send the document to her parents in MINN and have them get their signatures notarized and send back to her daughter. If there is an urgency, use FEDEX or priority mailing.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 5/2/05 5:54pm
Msg #35380

Agree with BarbaraL_CA. n/m

Reply by Stephen_VA on 5/2/05 5:59pm
Msg #35382

Barbara hit the nail on the head so far as my understanding.

Reply by jmaynotary_CA on 5/2/05 6:08pm
Msg #35388

Thanks for all your help.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/2/05 9:43pm
Msg #35445

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did you think your options might be besides the suggestions you got in here? I'm failing to see how this could be a stumper question.

Reply by jmaynotary_CA on 5/2/05 11:46pm
Msg #35468

After reading over the notary handbook...it says not to notarize a doc if it's not complete and without the parents signature, I don't consider the doc complete.

Another notary advised me to notarize the students signature and have the parents get their signatures notarized on another copy of the doc and have the both of those turned in together, but I wasn't sure if that was true or not.

This is only my second signing which means I haven't faced every single possible situation that their is in notarizing documents. So if you have any other questions, I would be happy to answer them for you.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 5/3/05 1:16am
Msg #35471

If the student is of legal age there is not a problem. It would be like doing a split signing. Now, if the student is a minor, her signature can not be notarized, only her parents signatures would be notarized (perhaps with an affidavit giving permission to their daughter to...whatever it is)

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/3/05 7:09am
Msg #35483

>>> if the student is a minor, her signature can not be notarized <<<

I don't understand that statement. Maybe it's a California thing, but I always was under the impression that "anyone's" signature can be notarized as long as the notarization adheres to state law. Does CA actually have a statute that says minor's signatures cannot be notarized?

In FL, the Governor's Reference Manual has the following information devoted to this subject.

For a Person Who is a Minor

Have you ever been asked to notarize the signature of a person under the age of 18? If so, you may have considered this request a “major” problem. No doubt you have had some of the same questions that we are frequently asked.

May I notarize the signature of a minor? Generally speaking, you may notarize for a minor; however, all of the requirements of the notary laws must be followed.

Is there an age limit? The notary laws do not limit notarizations based upon a person’s age. The Governor’s Notary Section recommends that you exercise caution when notarizing for a minor. In particular, you should determine whether the minor understands the nature of an oath or acknowledgment before notarizing.

For example, a woman recently called our office to ask whether she could notarize the signature of a 4-year-old child. The father wanted to transfer the title of a boat to his child. A child of this young age would probably not understand the transaction. On the other hand, we recently encountered a situation involving a 12-year-old child who wanted to submit a sworn statement to the court regarding an incident that she witnessed. She actually wrote down what she had seen and wanted to sign her statement and swear to it in the presence of a notary. Most likely, a 12-year-old child would understand the act of swearing to the truthfulness of a statement. In these types of situations, the notary should question the child to make sure that he or she understands the nature of an oath or an acknowledgment. The notary should also determine that the child is not being pressured or coerced to sign the document.

When a child is too young to comprehend the transaction, a parent sometimes signs on behalf of the child. If you are asked to notarize in that situation, it is the parent’s signature that is to be notarized, not the child’s.

What about identification for a minor? Any time you notarize a signature, the signer, including a minor, must provide acceptable identification to the notary. The problem, of course, is that most minors do not have one of the forms of acceptable identification listed in the Florida Statutes. There are two possible solutions.

First, you may be interested to know that any person 12 years of age or older may be issued a state identification card. To obtain the card, the person should apply at the local Division of Motor Vehicles office where driver’s licenses are issued.

Second, you may use the sworn written statement of a credible witness to identify the minor. (Please refer to page 33 for a full explanation of this method of identification.)

When asked to notarize the signature of a minor, you may refuse to do so if you are unsure about any aspect of the notarization. In unusual situations, you may even suggest that the minor or his or her parent or guardian see an attorney.

Reply by Sam I am on 5/3/05 10:03am
Msg #35498

she thinks it is incomplete...

***it says not to notarize a doc if it's not complete and without the parents signature, I don't consider the doc complete***

I couldn't find a thing in the CA handbook about age requirements.
Just because a signature line is blank - that does not mean that the document is not complete. For example, I do many HELOCs that have an area on the DOT for a witness. However, since CA does not require a witness, I leave that part blank.

Your acknowledgment has a space to provide the names of the person(s) who acknowledge signing the document. Just don't include the parent's names in your notorial section and you should be fine.

Reply by Jon on 5/3/05 10:56am
Msg #35506

Ca law has no provisions against notarizing for a minor. As long as the minor has proper ID, makes a proper request, and pays the required fee, you not only can do it, you are required to do it(unless there is evidence of coercion or something). Whether or not the person is a minor is irrelevent. I would go so far as to say that in attempting to determine if the person is a minor, you would be determing capacity which IS against Ca statute. Perhaps the person has been emancipated and as such is now able to sign legally binding contracts. Of course, you should use common sense, e.g. a 5 yr old more than likely would not understand what they are signing or be signing of their own free will, chances are pretty good that he/she is not emancipated either, but you get my drift.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/3/05 11:21am
Msg #35516

Re: Stumped on what to do...determining capacity?

***you would be determing capacity which IS against Ca statute***

A couple of weeks ago I did a signing where the wife told me the husband had Alzheimer's and that we needed to go slow so she could make sure he was signing where/as I indicated on each form.

I was concerned that he might not understand what he was signing so I ensured he knew why I was there, knew his birth date and the correct date.

Was I wrong to do that? Is that the same as determining capacity?

Reply by Jon on 5/3/05 11:28am
Msg #35519

Re: Stumped on what to do...determining capacity?

Capacity would be like position e.g. President of ABC Co, Trustee of XYZ Trust. You were determining competency, which is something we should do.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/3/05 11:47am
Msg #35524

Oh Right! Gotta work on my vocabulary :) n/m

Reply by Jon on 5/3/05 11:13am
Msg #35512

"After reading over the notary handbook...it says not to notarize a doc if it's not complete and without the parents signature, I don't consider the doc complete"

If you had a document that required three signatures of adults, say a man, his wife and his brother, but the brother was in a different state, would you consider that an incomplete document and refuse the notarization? Or is it because the signer is a minor(assuming he/she is) that you have reservations? I don't think that needing an additional signature makes the document incomplete. If you still have questions regarding this, call the Secretary of State for clarification.

Also, I just read the initial post again and was wondering if the signer is asking you what to do? If so, you cannot give them advice as to how to proceed. If you do, and it is later determined that you are wrong, you may be held liable for any damages, and may even constitute UPL. Do the notarization and tell them that you cannot advise them how to proceed.

Reply by Melody on 5/2/05 6:54pm
Msg #35409

Use NotaryRotary to find a MN notary

Barbara is right.

You can help the parents by finding a notary for them right here on Notary Rotary!

Look near the top left of the screen.
Click on "Find a Notary."