Posted by Marisa on 5/27/05 11:06am
Msg #40788

Thier money or ours?

I work for a State University. I do both University as well as non-university notaries (as a convience for staff/students). Since I work for the secretary of state...is the charged money due to the University or do I keep it? They paid for training, etc. They are making me put money into their account, which I don't understand. Anyone have explination?

Reply by Dogmonger, Ca on 5/27/05 11:11am
Msg #40791

If they are paying for your commission

and all expenses, plus paying your wage, why would you expect to be able to keep the fees????? Am I missing something????

Reply by Marisa on 5/27/05 11:31am
Msg #40797

Re: If they are paying for your commission

Well... When I got trained it was said over and over that I do not work for my company, but for the state. I feel that I am doing them a service. If they want me to pay for supplies, fine, but I happen to be able to provide a service, and I don't think that they money is theirs. I am obviously missing something.

Reply by Dogmonger, Ca on 5/27/05 11:36am
Msg #40800

They are already paying you for your services

They paid for your commission, bond, supplies and paying you a salary, and now you want the fees too????? If you wish to keep your notary fees, develop some clientele of your own outside of work. Sheesh

Reply by ColleenCA on 5/27/05 11:40am
Msg #40804

Re: They are already paying you for your services

As I understand it, if you are the company notary then any notarizations that are done for company purposes, and on company time, any fees collected belong to the company. However, if an employee or client comes to you and asks you to notarize something for them personally, you can certinaly do so at your lunchbreak, coffe break or after hours and collect and keep the fees for yourself. Also remember that even though the company paid for your commission, the stamp belongs to you!

Reply by Marisa on 5/27/05 11:44am
Msg #40805

Re: They are already paying you for your services

Yeah...well, it is split in what I have found out. Some agree some don't. I think the money is a perk, but that is not the point. The point is that I am not employeed by them. I don't care too much about the $s, but feel that I am being taken advatage of by employer.

Reply by Dogmonger, Ca on 5/27/05 11:59am
Msg #40811

If you are in Ca the statue is very clear

The fees belong to your employer. If you can negotiate fees after hours, those would be yours. You are employed by your employer, you are not emplyed by the SOS, just commissioned by them. If you are not in CA, you need to refer to your Notary Handbook for your specific state.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/27/05 12:06pm
Msg #40814

Re: They are already paying you for your services

***They paid for training, etc.***feel that I am being taken advantage of by employer***

I MUST be missing something here Marisa. You are employed by the State University. As your employer, they sent you to be trained as a notary. They paid all of the fees associated with receiving your notary commission. Your notary work is done at your work location as a service to those who either work at the school or are students etc.

How EXACTLY are you being taken advantage of??? If your employer trained you to use the fax machine and then asked you to send a fax would you consider them taking advantage of you? I am beside myself.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/27/05 12:09pm
Msg #40815

went off before reading that she gets it now - phew! n/m

Reply by Marisa on 5/27/05 12:47pm
Msg #40820

Re: went off before reading that she gets it now - phew! n/m

Actually - I agree to disagree. I have read the code and what it says...I still think is is a "funny" way of thinking. Like I said I don't particuarly care about the income - it is the principle.

Reply by Jon on 5/27/05 3:46pm
Msg #40849

...she gets it now - not really

You need to re-read Gov Code 8202.5.

If the State pays for your commission fees, bond, and other supplies and have filed the appropriate certificate, you are bound by law to remit all fees to the entity to help pay your salary. This applies to not only on duty notarizations, but off duty notarizations as well.

If you acquired your commission before starting the job, then it would be a matter of whether or not the job description includes providing notarial services. Your salary should have been negotiated beforehand to include services as a notary.

If you have further concerns, you should contact the SOS to get clarification.

Reply by Marisa on 5/27/05 12:43pm
Msg #40819

Re: They are already paying you for your services

I don't think the fax example is the same. I guess I was influenced by my training. They said that if we work for an employer we have 2 options. One is to do only company business. The other option is to be available for all people (which legally I have to be). My uni wants to offer a convience for people on campus. They have readied me for that convience. I will not charge for Uni related services. I see myself as a notray completly seperate from a Uni employee. I think that they are distinct. The state has commissed me to do service for the state. The state in return has authorized that I can charge a fee for this. If my employer wants me to be available ok, but I still think it is my money. I agree that I should have to pay for fees in regard to becoming a notary. My department needs money (like every CA state institution). I feel that they have found a loophole to raise money - by taking the money I bring in.

What do you feel if the situation was that I came to the Uni as a notary already. I put on my resume that I am a notary public. They asked me to perform during work hours. Who then should keep the money?

Reply by ColleenCA on 5/27/05 12:56pm
Msg #40823

Re: They are already paying you for your services

Marisa states: "What do you feel if the situation was that I came to the Uni as a notary already. I put on my resume that I am a notary public. They asked me to perform during work hours. Who then should keep the money?"

It is still the same situation. You are performing the notary duties, during work hours, for the university. Of course they are offering your services as a convience to students, staff, etc. As an employee, you are servicing the students, staff, etc in all of your duties. Now, if you were to go to another university, put up an ad on the bullitin board that you are a notary for hire then in that instance, you would charge your state mandated $10.00 per signature, plus any traveling fees that you see fit and you would keep the money.

Reply by MI_Notary on 5/27/05 1:49pm
Msg #40832

Re: They are already paying you for your services

I am a Paralegal and notarize legal documents all day long during work hours and if the company feels they want to charge extra for that service, then it is their money. I can't expect to get paid extra for something done on their time and where I am already receiving an hourly wage. On the other hand, when I perform my loan closings (outside of work), that money is mine. It is on my time and I am not getting paid from my employer to assist in loan closings. Therefore, they do not get to claim any $$ from that. So in short, if you are doing it on their time, getting paid an hourly wage to be there already, then you do not deserve the $$ made from the notary services. That is why they paid for your training, etc. You can't expect to get an hourly wage, plus the notary fees since it is part of your job to do this service. If you notarize on your time, then the fee is yours to keep and they do not deserve any portion of it (even if they paid for the training). Hope that helps.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/27/05 2:43pm
Msg #40841

Re: They are already paying you for your services

You obviously are not really interested in hearing opposing views, or the reason for that opposition. What you want to hear are arguments agreeing with you.

You don't work for the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State certifies your competency and eligibility to perform a function, that's all. To say that you work for the Secretary of State is equivalent to saying that I work for the Department of Public Safety because I have a state-issued driver's license.

In my state, law enforcement officers must be certified by the state. Because that certification is required, does that mean a cop should be able to keep all the traffic fines his work generates? Your position is illogical, self-serving and myopic.

You want to earn notary commissions, do the work to earn those commissions on your own time, not time that is paid for by the university.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 5/27/05 3:21pm
Msg #40847

Marisa/look at it as experience & exposure to many docs.

Reply by Stephen_VA on 5/27/05 11:15am
Msg #40792

Well. The commission everywhere that I know of is *yours* regardless of who paid for it. I would say if you are using their facilities, and on the job time to perform the non-university notarizations then they can say you are doing it as part of your job. If you are talking about things outside work, for example on weekends, then I might try to get them to get their hands off.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/27/05 11:39am
Msg #40801

You need to have a good read of Government Code 8202.5. It's in your CA notary Handbook. Or you can go to the CA SOS website and download and read it.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/27/05 11:40am
Msg #40803

DOH that is if your in CA...

Reply by JohCal on 5/27/05 11:30am
Msg #40796

Marisa, are you in California? If you are, refer to Gov. Code 8202.5 and 8202.7 in your handbook.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 5/27/05 11:55am
Msg #40807

Here is the CA law.

If you are in CA, the CA notary Handbook, page 21 states:

"§ 8202.7. Private employers; agreement to pay premium on bonds and costs of
supplies; remission of fees to employer
A private employer, pursuant to an agreement with an employee who is a notary public,
may pay the premiums on any bond and the cost of any stamps, seals, or other supplies
required in connection with the appointment, commission, or performance of the duties of
such notary public. Such agreement may also provide for the remission of fees collected by
such notary public to the employer, in which case any fees collected or obtained by such
notary public while such agreement is in effect shall be remitted by such notary public to the
employer which shall deposit such funds to the credit of the fund from which the
compensation of the notary public is paid.
§ 8202.8. Private employers; limitation on provision of notarial services
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a private employer of a notary public who has
entered into an agreement with his or her employee pursuant to Section 8202.7 may limit,
during the employee’s ordinary course of employment, the providing of notarial services by
the employee solely to transactions directly associated with the business purposes of the
employer."

You can access the CA notary Handbook at: http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/notary/notary_2005hdbk.pdf

Reply by Marisa on 5/27/05 11:58am
Msg #40809

Re: Here is the CA law.

Thanks - I am new and wasn't familiar with this - and my department didn't tell me anything either until now. Now I know

Reply by Dogmonger, ca on 5/27/05 12:01pm
Msg #40812

In the future

If you put the state in which you reside in your moniker, people will be able to respond you with specific answers.

Reply by Marisa on 5/27/05 12:03pm
Msg #40813

Re: In the future

CA was correct...and thanks for advice.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/27/05 1:08pm
Msg #40826

Re: In the future

Some employer's share the fee with their employee notaries, and sometimes even let them keep all of the fee if the notary pays for their own commission and bond, but that is something you negotiate when you are hired.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 5/27/05 5:11pm
Msg #40865

Re: Here is the CA law.

When they say that as a notary you are responsible to the state, it means that it is your job to observe and be knowledgeable of the notary laws (not your department's job). I recommend you make sure you have a current copy of the CA notary Handbook (issued by the Secretary of State - NOT the NNA!!) and study it over and over. Highlight key points, mark it up or whatever you need to do to assimilate it all. You'll find that it will answer many questions you might have going forward. And if it doesn't, by all means post another question here...

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 5/27/05 3:17pm
Msg #40846

Marisa:
My company has paid for everything regarding my Notary Commission, and I signed an agreement; however, I pay for everything that is related to my Notary Signing business & I conduct my business off of my employers' location, therefore all money from loan signing is mine.

I work full-time for a large bank in San Francisco - Wealth Management/Trust Real Estate Depts.

I have notarized hundreds of documents with no pay; however, the pay is the experience and opportunity to see and notarize so many different documents.

Check to see if there is an agreement or policy that the University has in regards to Notaries Public in their employment.

I hope you get this figured out.

Reply by Marisa on 5/27/05 4:05pm
Msg #40854

Thank you for explanations

Thank you Stephanie. And others who offered clear explanations. I honestly thought that I reported to the SOS. Another coworker was trained at the same time - We both came away with the same impression regarding who our employer so to speak is, in regards to notary and in terms of fees. There was obviously a misunderstanding. Thanks again.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/27/05 7:04pm
Msg #40884

Who taught your notary class? Was it the NNA?