Posted by CA Notary on 5/27/05 9:52pm
Msg #40914
Unbelievable backdating
Would you believe I was called at noon today for a signing at 2:30 p.m., edocs, of course. He met my fee, I started printing docs, and he calls back and says, "Oh, by the way, the date on all the docs is Tuesday, May 24, so the borrower says it's fine that you have everything signed and dated for the 24th."
| Reply by Bill/CA on 5/27/05 10:35pm
Msg #40925
I had a call on the 25 to do one the 26th. The LO calls me an hour later, "No we want to sign on 25." "Sorry I'm booked." I'll call the title company and get another notary. O.K. Fine.
He called me back, O.K. you can sign the 26th but backdate it to the 25th. Sorry no can do.
Then he asks why, I told him, it is illegal. He says he'll call the title company to fine a notary that will. O.K. Fine, again. Now wouldn't you think, they don't want you to do the signing.
He's told me twice he's going to get another notary. That's fine with me.
I take another signing for the 26th. I then get a call from the signig company on the 26th, regarding the signing on the 26th. I explained, I told you yesterday, he told me he was going to fine another notary. I have another signing at the time he wants me to come there, he wouldn't make an appointment for the 26th when I had openings.
The LO calls me on the 27th wanting to know how the signing went. What kind of drugs are they on?
| Reply by Melody on 5/27/05 11:02pm
Msg #40926
I feel your pain
I had similar nutty calls today.
One was a cancellation call not 5 minutes away from the borrower's mansion. Yes, mansion. I had already printed eDocs and driven 35 minutes.
I had turned down another notary job for this time slot that paid $50 cash-on-the-spot.
Arrrrgh.
I am in the mood to put my cell phone on my desk and watch it axphixiate due to electricity deprivation.
I hope it rings so I can hear it faintly and reluctantly gurgle slowly to death.
| Reply by mmb-fl on 5/28/05 3:17pm
Msg #41010
I got a call last night where they wanted me to backdate ... and when i said no they said ... well dont date or notarize anything just take the docs and have them sign them and then send them to us unnotarized ... i called them back and said NOWAY was i going to be a part of this .....
| Reply by Knight Notary Services on 5/27/05 11:14pm
Msg #40929
Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
. . . . I have had two lenders call me on Wednesday asking me to close on Thrusday with Wednesday's date. When I told them sure, but only after you contact Michigan Dept. of State and get written permission for me (a notary) to back date a set of loan docs, I will be more then happy to do this. Both LO's/Scheduler said: "that's o.k. I will find someone else who will be willing to do it" . . and needless to say they did not call back because they found someone.
It's sad though, that greed on both ends . . (the notary and the LO), will cause us to jeopardize our commission as well as face large fines or even jail time for the love of money! Whatever to having to having pride and respect for your work. I take my job very serious and it's irritates me to see fellow notaries who lower their standards to make a quick dollar (or two). Makes you wonder how some people sleep at night!
Larita Knight
| Reply by Bill/CA on 5/27/05 11:21pm
Msg #40931
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
Don't you really wonder who they are that are doing the backdating?
| Reply by Knight Notary Services on 5/27/05 11:33pm
Msg #40932
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
Yes I really would so that I can tell them to STOP IT!
But in due time, it will catch up with them. So hopefully those few extra dollars was worth the large fine that the state will access to them as well as the loss of income since their commission will be revoked!
| Reply by Bill/CA on 5/27/05 11:53pm
Msg #40935
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
I'd like to see them get a paid vacation, local Jail!
| Reply by Melody on 5/28/05 12:10am
Msg #40939
Idea to bust them
Just an idea -
You may be able to research your county's courthouse database to see if the loan funded.
If yes, then you know the loan closed.
You already know who the lender or title company is if you accepted any docs. This works best with eDocs but you might find helpful info on your confirmation sheet - such as the loan number.
Call the Secretary of State or the Attorney General's office in your state and tell them what happened. Give them as many details as you can: property address, lender, title company, SS, whatever.
Get 'em!
They are ruining the credibility of notaries everywhere.
In addition to the ethics of acting against regulations, the notaries that act illegally and unprofessionally fuel the efforts of those who want more states to go "Attorney Only."
| Reply by HisHughness on 5/28/05 12:24am
Msg #40942
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
I find this quite astonishing. In more than 2 1/2 years of signings, I have never been asked to backdate docs. If I ever was asked, refused to do so, and was told that the scheduler would find somebody else, I know what my response would be.
First I would ask, okay, what is the title company and the names of the borrowers. Then I'd ascertain the county. Then I would tell the scheduler, quite emphatically so that there would be no misunderstanding:
"You go ahead and find yourself a notary who will backdate these documents. You should be aware, though, that when you first said the word 'backdate,' I hit the record button on my phone. Be aware that within the next 30 days, I will check the courthouse recordings to ascertain if the deed in this closing has been filed, and what the date on the documents is and who the notary public was. If it was indeed backdated, I will take that information to the Secretary of State and the Attorney General.
"Good luck in finding a notary."
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/28/05 12:55am
Msg #40948
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
Only once for me. Just one backdate request...it was from a FL number, and the caller said: But they are my documents. Can't you do it if I want you to do it? Maybe they had a cell phone and were callling from down the street...but I doubt it.
| Reply by Notary MI on 5/28/05 9:24am
Msg #40971
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
I know of a few that are backdating. They don't seem to really care.
I've lost some $$ because these Notaries are willing to do unethical / illegal signings, so some of the SS's & TC will use these Notaries over ethical ones.
One that does this type of stuff, I'm really afraid of -- don't want to put the details on this board.
I can sleep at night anyway -- wonder if the others can.
| Reply by Paul_IL on 5/28/05 12:23pm
Msg #40984
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
Report the Notary to the Secretary of States office and report the lender\loan officer to your states Department that handles Banking and Financing. Till these people are reported they will continue to do these illegal acts.
| Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/28/05 1:01pm
Msg #40990
Re: Money for some is the only important factor.sad but true
Driven by greed, I have met folks that live that way, but it always comes back to bite them eventually.
| Reply by ColleenCA on 5/28/05 3:38pm
Msg #41015
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
NotaryMI, why in the world are you afraid of another notary? If you have information that someone has been and continues to backdate documents, then report them anom. and get these criminals (yes that is what they are) to stop doing this. Once they are removed from the scene, those signings will go to the ethical notaries and the problem will be solved.
| Reply by MI_Notary on 5/28/05 6:32pm
Msg #41042
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
I agree. Report them, especially if they are aware that this is wrong but keep doing it. It is not them that lose their homes if there are problems with the docs and the borrowers do not have the proper time to reject the loan, it is the borrowers. We need to do all that we can (within our power) to protect the borrowers as well as ourselves. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I was allowing this to happen, knowing that it could potentially hurt the borrowers. The borrowers may not even realize what they are giving up by backdating. Report those who are unethical.
| Reply by MI_Notary on 5/28/05 6:24pm
Msg #41041
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
They may just go along until they find someone new who really doesn't know any better and is anxious to get their foot in the door. However, hopefully newbies in MI are reading this board and others like it to know that it is not legal to do. It is scary to think that these companies do not get caught and are still able to offer loans. I don't know of anyone in Northern Michigan who would be willing to do this. I know I wouldn't.
| Reply by Notary MI on 5/28/05 7:12pm
Msg #41048
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
I spoke with Larita this afternoon -- she knows where I'm coming from with this.
Well, let me just say, that those that you think do not do this stuff..... "do".
| Reply by Julie-Michigan on 5/28/05 9:05pm
Msg #41063
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
"Well, let me just say, that those that you think do not do this stuff........"do".
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
What are you trying to say?
Every state has backdaters.
A sometime poster on these boards, whom I have not seen in a while, filed a complaint with their SOS, regarding backdating. The state replied that the person turning in the backdating notary had to supply the proof. It's lousy, but backdating notaries are not high on the list of our prosecuting attorneys. It's major to us because it's what we take pride in and follow the law and it's what we do for a living or to supplement our incomes. We take our commission seriously and use it everyday or at least every week. 
The backdaters will not likely be prosecuted any time soon. Who is the witness going to be? The mortgagor that got to keep the interest rate and payoff the bills and/or ex-spouse? The lender that got the big commission or the title company that has the lender which is their big client?
No one is going to testify. So how is the state supposed to investigate?
Even the great NNA cannot find a case of a siging agent prosecuted, decommissioned, thrown in the slammer, fined and other penalties.
No one from Michigan has been on these boards longer than me, and I can honestly say I've only had a handful of requests to backdate in the almost five years that I've been in this business. And most of those came from signing companies--Andrea the gal with the British accent, requested backdating. I declined and would not backdate. Yes, someone is, but I don't know that they are getting bigger $$$ for it. I don't think title companies are going to bribe notaries with bigger dollars. I'm not going to do the state's job and try to do stake outs or go to the Reg. of Deeds office and search the mortgagor's name to find the notary. What I am going to do is run a clean business and what goes around comes around.
Those that are undercutting and running around the tri-county area for $125 from title company for edcos are the problem that cutting revenues, not the backdating. I have a new title company that asked me to backdate six weeks ago. I declined and was feeling they would never call me again as they would always run to the backdating notary. Well I had $1,200 worth of business from them this month and no requests to backdate.
Additionally, we are always quick to assume that the other notary backdated. I had two last minute deals on Friday from a notary that didn't show up on Thursday. It was a pain in the neck as I was painting my brother's rental unit for the new tenants moving in on Sat and I was covered in paint. I quickly gussied up and accepted the appointments. I was instructed to cross out all the dates and change to the 27th and have the borrower initial AND change the RTC dates and initial. Sometimes we assume that backdating is requested when in fact it is not.
| Reply by HisHughness on 5/28/05 10:31pm
Msg #41070
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
Julie-MI takes what is essentially a "live-and-let-lie" position on notaries who backdate documents. I would find it difficult to be more in disagreement with such a position.
Historically, professions are seldom reformed from within: The reform always come from without. Usually, the common practices of the offending profession are so detrimental to the general welfare that an irate public forces change. Or there is one horrendous example that inflames the public conscience, and leads to reform.
All that would be required for notaries to be uncomfortably thrust into the spotlight with respect to loan closings would be one sympathetic widow who loses her home through some combination of incompetence and unethical practices, and this pleasant little structure we have built could come crashing down around us. That's because in our case, our profession would not be reformed, it would be hijacked and turned over to lawyers.
As I have stated previously, in more than 2 1/2 years of signings, I have never been asked to backdate a document. For those who have been asked to do that, however, I would strongly recommend that the request be reported to the appropriate authorities -- regardless of whether you know there will be action or know that there will be no action. I think it is imperative that the profession be upfront about problems of practices or of practitioners. Then, if push ever does come to shove, we are in a position to say that reform is not needed, what is needed is enforcement of the law. We cannot say that if the SOS has never received a single report of backdating.
| Reply by Notary MI on 5/29/05 3:01pm
Msg #41132
Re: Someone in MI is definately backdating . .
Julie,
I was replying to Paula B.'s comment. She thinks this stuff doesn't happen in her area.
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