Posted by Donna CA on 5/20/05 11:50pm
Msg #39456

to all SS out there- here is a suggestion

This is just a thought, but when hiring new notaries, after "phone interviewing" them, would it perhaps be cost efficient to send them a "practice" package and maybe find a "test borrower" to see how they do at a signing? This may cost a bit, but if you consider all the lost business you apparently have, testing them out first might help prevent the problem.

Reply by Anony,nony,nony on 5/20/05 11:54pm
Msg #39459

Don't want to get flamed. But, hey, that is a good idea! Don't think you even need pretend B's... just a few 'notarized' docs.... see how they do with the basics.

Reply by Not flaming!!! on 5/21/05 12:37am
Msg #39466

As long as they are just faxes back and forth. I could see doing it. I doubt if the SS would want to do that, as they are not a training school and generally don't have the overhead to do this on a large scale.

I don't agree with orginal post, I do believe that even if you are new you also need to be paid a fair wage for any signing. Next thing someone will suggest we pay them to do a few signings. You don't want that. The signing companies will let you do two or three at a reduced rate and move on to another newbie. Why pay full when you can pay half will be their motto. Then the next signing company will use you for a few.

Don't get me wrong. I make good money. I just don't want the title companies and signing companies and they DO read these boards, to get the idea that the newbies are willing to do signing for next to nothing.

I've been doing this 5 years and there was very little out there in the way of training back then. If we made it, so can you with everything that is available and places like this board to ask questions. Sometimes the answers are unpleasant and I'm sorry about that. I do wish some of the seasoned notaries could really remember when they were starting out. I know competion is hard out there sometimes, but generally the person asking the question is not in your area.

Reply by Anony, etc. on 5/21/05 10:26am
Msg #39503

Who said anything about a reduced fee???

But it might solve the incompetancy problem for an SS IF they could send a couple of 'faked things to be notarized & faxed back'... 2 or 3 things. Notarization is either right or screwed up. THEN maybe WE wouldn't be getting 14 pages of instructions & a ton of faxbacks due to the problems that SS's have experienced. Makes sense to me. Would this be any worse than signing up with a co. & faxing back a 10 page contract, etc???

Reply by ManyBell_Tx on 5/20/05 11:55pm
Msg #39460

Sometimes I wonder if I am being tested when I am doing a signing (Mystery Shopper).

Reply by InkWerk/CA (still working) on 5/21/05 2:14am
Msg #39474

Good idea, but I haven't found a fool-proof way to administer a psychological test to positively identify the individual as a "crackpot".....and of course, hiring a full time psychologist is cost prohibited.

Reply by Donna CA on 5/21/05 2:34am
Msg #39477

I don't know of a good way to "weed out" the psychos either-except maybe to rent to them ( I have worked at a few complexes that seem to be full of them) but this was just a suggestion to find notaries that wouldn't lose business for the signing agencies- and not to do a real signing for free either.I was talkng about a "mock" signing.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/21/05 2:40am
Msg #39479

I think this is a terrible idea

It's posts like these that make me believe that we are never going to be taken seriously as a profession.

We are independent contractors, not employees. There is no reason why the signing services should have to train us or send us out on test runs. If you were hiring a plumber would you create a test pipe to see how he does before you let him work on your real pipes? Would you bring a test engine to a mechanic before you let him work on your car?

I don't mean to jump all over you Donna, but this type of mentality just annoys me to no end. I know that the reality is that there are a bunch of signing agents out there who don't have a clue as to what they're doing, but the way to solve that problem is NOT by instituting more newbie hand holding in the industry. It just fosters the mentality that it's perfectly normal and acceptable for us to not know how to do the job we're trying to get hired for and that we should just learn as we go along.

Independent contractors in other industries somehow manage to learn their profession BEFORE they start looking for work and they are expected to know exactly what they're doing when they're hired. Why do so many people think that this basic business facet shouldn't apply to our industry as well? Signing services and title companies shouldn't have to send us on test runs, we should know what we're doing before we start putting ourselves into their databases.

Reply by mike_ca on 5/21/05 3:19am
Msg #39486

Re: I think this is a terrible idea

Your right! Some of us pay good money and time going to meetings, seminars and even working with other notarys to keep us up on things that can pop up.

I think if we can act professional by assuring the SS's and others that "if it's our fault, we'll make good" and we use forums like this to help each other, there's no reason to train us. Don't even try the reduced rate thing here, it's hard enough to collect from some of these SS's anyway.

Reply by Donna CA on 5/21/05 6:24pm
Msg #39550

Re: I think this is a terrible idea

No one said anything abouttraining anyone. This would merely be a way to see if a notary knew how to do their job, and had the necessary common sense.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/21/05 9:20am
Msg #39497

CaliNotary - you are so right!

SS expect us to know our jobs. We shouldn't need hand holding.
Some Ss do administer a test (but i notice that most of those tests are not really geared to the signing agent, there are questions in those that the signing agent needn't be concerned with, they are geared more to Escrow officers!

Also, as a SS I may get a call around 4pm to find a signing agent for a signing the next day. There is no time to do a "mock signing" with an agent, I have only about an hour to find an agent and get the info to the title company so they can get the docs out overnight.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/21/05 11:03am
Msg #39509

Re: CaliNotary - you are so right!

I did some work for an SS. the owner gets on the phone with every new notary and he asks them a few key questions that will tell him right off if the notary knows how to conduct a signing and understands the process. Then he asks you to fax back notarized pages after first signing. If you know the process and back it up with perfect notarization one time., your in. then no more fax backs and its smooth sailing. Not very time consuming, He was on the phone with me while i Printed the doc's so when I left for the signing he was comfortable that I knew what I was doing.

Reply by Donna CA on 5/21/05 6:25pm
Msg #39551

Re: CaliNotary - you are so right!

Erna that makes sense but most SS don't do that. This was basically my point but of course so many peoiple didnt get it

Reply by Lalas_socal on 5/21/05 7:39pm
Msg #39553

Re: CaliNotary - you are so right!

must agree with erna and cali on this one..one conversation, one fax back, one signing and the client will know if you know your stuff, do a good job and they will call, and call again. and...if they want to continue to have an excellent job done, they will pay more than 50 bucks, much more. Its worth it to them to know the signing will be flawless.

Reply by John_NorCal on 5/21/05 2:58pm
Msg #39530

Re: I think this is a terrible idea>I agree with Cali

To all the newbies: Learn your laws, ask pertinent questions not the basic questions that you should have known in order to get your commission. Act professional and have respect for what you do. When I first started signing many moons ago, there were no forums such as this one. I was fortunate enough to have real estate experience so I understood what needed to be done. Don't expect an ss or title company especially to train you, that isn't their job. Try taking a real estate class or two so that you can see the things that are needed in a transaction.
This forum has a wealth of information from people like CaliNotary, Brenda_TX, Sylvia, PAW, and others. Tap into their knowledge but please skip the basics.

Reply by Donna CA on 5/21/05 6:22pm
Msg #39549

To CaliNotary

No but I don't use a plumber without references- good onesw- or a doctor or anyone else. You go on aand think it is a bad idea, but it is incompetent npotaries that give the rest of us a bad name and cost SS good accounts. It has nothing to do with us not being employees, but rather weeding out the bad from the good without having problems in between.
Besides, it is a well established fact that you have a negative attitude usually anyway

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/22/05 4:24am
Msg #39575

Re: To CaliNotary

You really need to learn the difference between a differing opinion and a negative attitude.

Reply by BobAL on 5/22/05 10:02am
Msg #39581

Re: To CaliNotary

I aggre CaliNotary but du yuo no wat relly bathers me? Al of thease poeple whu clame tu be profesonal... they can't spell. I know that maybe they are typing very quickly but like you say... the companies that hire them are reading this board also. I have really seen some "stupid" posts here that really makes me wonder what kind of people are out there attempting to do this job and that may be what's hurting our reputation in this industry. I dont kno fer sur but itt jusst seams that way... Gud Look! (hope I spelled everything correctly)

Reply by Don't even think of it on 5/21/05 2:27pm
Msg #39525

First of all, some of these SS's aren't even Notaries -- they have not got a clue what is the proper procedure / Law. Ever call one of them, and tell them that something is incorrect or not possible in your State? --- Some of them just say, "we'll call you back".... they never call back. These are the same ones that ask us Notaries to backdate, use inappropriate identification etc.
I'd like to see requirements put on the SS's -- first and foremost they have to have been a notary for at least 3 years, know how to look up State Notary Laws, have sufficient collateral (maybe have a requirement of a certain amount of $$$).

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/21/05 2:57pm
Msg #39529

That reminds me, I had done a lot of signings for Vital Signings, then a couple of years ago they started requiring fax backs and to wait before shipping out.
So, I did one for them and faxed back the required pages.
At 3pm the next day I still had not heard back, so I called them, as I needed to get the docs in the drop box or they would have to wait another day.
Spoke to Cory who told me that he had a stack of fax backs a mile high and was working his way through them, but he would look for mine and call me back.
He called back and asked how long I had been a notary, I told him. Then he asked did I know the difference between a jurat and an acknowledgment. I told him I did. He then asked why I had added wording to a certificate that wasn't required for that certificate (I forget if it was an ack. or a jurat) I asked him what wording did I add that I shouldn't have.
He said I had added the form of ID that the borrowers provided and it isn't required.
I told him that it is for Florida, he said he had never heard that. I faxed him over the relevant Florida law.
He may have been familiar with CA law, but I told him if he was having faxbacks from signing agents all over the USA then he better make himself familiar with all the states notary laws.

As to the last part of your post:

"I'd like to see requirements put on the SS's -- first and foremost they have to have been a notary for at least 3 years, know how to look up State Notary Laws, have sufficient collateral (maybe have a requirement of a certain amount of $$$)."

I wish those requirements were there too. And actually, I think they should not only have been a notary for at least 3 years, but signing agents too.

Before I started my signing service I made sure I had collateral, so I could pay the signing agents when they completed the signing, and didn't have to wait until I got paid.

Reply by John_NorCal on 5/21/05 3:01pm
Msg #39531

I like your thinking Sylvia! n/m

Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/21/05 4:08pm
Msg #39535

Many ss dont have a clue. I had one tell me I am learing from my notaries. They have never been signing agents and might not even be notaries. But others ofcourse have it all togater.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 5/21/05 5:28pm
Msg #39545

Good points! nm