Posted by Bea from California on 5/20/05 4:49am
Msg #39199

tribal photo ID card

Does anyone know the status in California of a tribal photo ID card with expiration date, PO Box address, and an ID number as proof of ID in notarizing a grant deed? This person lost his DL and is waiting for the replacement to arrive in the mail. The photo is not holographic.

2nd question: If the grant deed shows the middle initial, the ID printed name does not show the middle initial, but the signature on the card has the middle initial, is that acceptable?
Thanks for whatever help you can give me!

Reply by No Can on 5/20/05 6:41am
Msg #39202

Indian Tribal ID is NOT United States issued ID. This is a totally different "Nation" then the United States. For example: would you accept ID from Mexico or Canada? The answer would be NO.
Eventho we as US Tax payers pay for Tribes to have FREE health care, dental, housing etc.
I'll get off my soapbox now.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/05 7:39am
Msg #39207

I agree
But on "would you accept ID from Mexico or Canada" - Yes, if it was a passport.

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 5/20/05 9:38am
Msg #39220

In CA we can accept a foreign a driver's license issued by a Canadian or Mexican public agency authorized to issue drivers' licenses. No where can I find anything addressing the tribal photo ID card. I would say No we can't accept it.

Reply by Jon on 5/20/05 9:51am
Msg #39222

You need to re-read Civil Code 1185. A DL issued by Canada or Mexico IS allowed by Ca law, provided it is current or issued within 5 years, contains a photograph(doesn't specify the type of photo), description of the person, signed by the person, and bear a serial or other identifying number.

Reply by Notary-Me on 5/20/05 2:44pm
Msg #39338

The issuing agency has to be GOVERNMENT not U.S. Government.....

Reply by NO on 5/20/05 3:54pm
Msg #39352

To Notary-Me

You said "The issuing agency has to be GOVERMENT not U.S. Government".
I don't know what state you are in but, my State says U.S.
Here's acceptable ID for my State:

State Drivers License or offical non-drivers ID

U.S. and Foreign passports

U.S. Military ID

ID Card issued by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)

Reply by Bea in California on 5/20/05 6:24pm
Msg #39388

Re: To Notary-Me

Reply by Bea in California on 5/20/05 6:24pm
Msg #39389

Re: To Notary-Me

Reply by Bea in California on 5/20/05 6:24pm
Msg #39390

Re: To Notary-Me

Reply by John_NorCal on 5/20/05 8:01am
Msg #39209

Bea, according to civil code sec. 1185 the following are the acceptable forms of identification in California. I believe your tribal id falls into this category

(3) Reasonable reliance on the presentation to the officer of any one of the following, if the document is current or
has been issued within five years:
(A) An identification card or driver's license issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles.
(B) A passport issued by the Department of State of the United States.
(4) Reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following, provided that a document specified in
subparagraphs (A) to (E), inclusive, shall either be current or have been issued within five years and shall contain a
photograph and description of the person named on it, shall be signed by the person, shall bear a serial or other
identifying number, and, in the event that the document is a passport, shall have been stamped by the United States
Immigration and Naturalization Service:
(A) A passport issued by a foreign government.
(B) A driver's license issued by a state other than California or by a Canadian or Mexican public agency authorized
to issue drivers' licenses.
(C) An identification card issued by a state other than California.
(D) An identification card issued by any branch of the armed forces of the United States.
(E) An inmate identification card issued on or after January 1, 1988, by the Department of Corrections, if the inmate
is in custody.
(F) An inmate identification card issued prior to January 1, 1988, by the Department of Corrections, if the inmate is
in custody.

Reply by Dave_CA on 5/20/05 9:07am
Msg #39214

John has provided the definitive list of what is acceptable in CA and the tribal ID is not.

This makes your 2nd question moot as you can't use that ID.
I would say that even if it were acceptable you would not be able to use it as the name on the deed is longer than the name printed on the ID.

I don't think the fact the they signed a longer "version" is sufficient.
I'll be interested to see what some of our more experienced notaries have to say.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/20/05 11:03am
Msg #39257

>>> I don't think the fact the they signed a longer "version" is sufficient. <<<

The signature is provided by the signer not the agency issuing the identification document. A person could sign "Mickey Mouse" on their driver's license, but that doesn't allow us to use it as the name on the identification. The name we must use is the name **printed by the agency issuing the ID**.

However, in determining additional evidence of middle initials, slightly different first names, etc., the signature on the ID may be helpful in that determination.

What about those scribbled names that you can't make heads nor tail of? Whose to say that it does or doesn't state their name? It's just their signature.

Reply by Jon on 5/20/05 10:20am
Msg #39235

If the ID conforms to the criteria stated in my other post, I would probably accept it. I may ask for supporting ID, it depends on the situation and my instincts about the signer.

As for the middle initial, the SOS has stated in the past that accepting variations of the name on the ID is up to the individual notary(they were very non-commital). I generally do not accept ID that has a "shorter" name than is on the docs.

Before everyone blasts me for accepting an ID that is not on the "list", let me explain why I would. The laws governing ID have not been revised in some time. Some of the ID's listed are no longer valid, ie military ID, due to changes in the format. Other ID's have had changes in format, ie inmate ID's, and are still valid. I spoke to the SOS office and the same person told me that the military ID was not acceptable and the inmate ID was, both are missing the physical description of the person. Why the difference? My OPINION is that if you can show reasonable care in identifying the signer, you should be OK. Civil Code 1185(e) states that the burden of proof in establishing negligence or misconduct of the notary lies with the party who files the action for damages. I think that a notary could very easily show that they used reasonable care. This opinion is for Ca only, other states may vary.

This is not legal advice, simply the opinions of one who may or may not be insane.(Thanks Brenda, I think I'm plagiarizing you )



OK, that is my reasoning. BLAST ME!!!! Give it to me with both barrels, I'm ready!!

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/20/05 10:45am
Msg #39241

Re: Military ID not valid?

***Civil Code 1185(e) states that the burden of proof in establishing negligence or misconduct of the notary lies with the party who files the action for damages.***

Thank God for that - San Diego is a military town! There is no way I'm going to stop a loan signing because the poor guy/girl only has his/her military ID and we can't find two credible witnesses.

Reply by Art_MD on 5/20/05 10:54am
Msg #39248

Re: Military ID not valid YES

Jon norcal response listed acceptable ID - 4 D covers military ID.

Art

Reply by Jon on 5/20/05 11:20am
Msg #39264

Re: Military ID not valid YES

"Jon norcal response listed acceptable ID - 4 D covers military ID."

Yes, but '4' says that those on the list must contain a photo, physical description, signature, and ID number. The new format for military ID's does not contain all of those elements.

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 5/20/05 11:04am
Msg #39258

Military ID

is valid per the SOS right now... The problem is the NEW MILITARY ID!!!... All the identifying information is on an embedded micro chip on the card. That's where the problem comes in. That's why the NEW Military IDs cannot be accepted. On paper (according to the rules) the Military ID is acceptable, in practice with the new ID it's not because of the microchip issue.

I don't want people to think they cannot accept the standard Military ID which does have all the required information printed on the card.

Reply by Jon on 5/20/05 11:15am
Msg #39262

Re: Military ID

Thank you for the clarification, Maggie. My understanding is that all of the military ID's were updated to the new format as of Jan. This is only heresay, and I may have incorrect info. The restriction I mentioned as it pertains to military ID is only for the new format.

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 5/20/05 11:39am
Msg #39277

As a Card Carrying Military Dependent ID Person

I can verify that there are still those of us out here carrying the "traditional" ID card. Mine expires 12/07 and then I'll be getting the new card. The old ones will be phased out as the exisiting cards expire and new IDs are issued.

Reply by Bea from California on 5/20/05 6:37pm
Msg #39398

Thanks to all of you who answered! I am surprised that nobody mentioned having encountered this in a signing. As it stands now, the signing is left in limbo; the signing company notified the lender, who is working on the matter. But it is very reassuring to hear comments from all of you. You are a wonderfully supportive "nest."