Posted by Gerry_VT on 11/12/05 7:42am
Msg #76084

An acknowledgement is a sentence

A recent post titled, in part, "kinda in a hurry", has renewed the discussion of what level of knowledge is "Notary 101" and should be either known, or easily researched, by the anyone who calls him/herself a notary. Perhaps a part of the problem is that acknowledgements have been presented to these questioners as a "magic formula"; it does not make sense, you just memorize what goes where. If it isn't the wording you're used to, find a book or message board post that has an example like what is in front of you.

I think this is generally the wrong approach; an acknowledgement is an English language sentence that makes sense. If you read it as a sentence, it is usually obvious what goes where. However, some of the key words in an acknowledgement may never have been properly explained. Consider this example from the Vermont notary manual (which contains no additional explaination):
<quote>
While Vermont law does not presently require a particular form for acknowledgment, the following is offered as typical:
STATE OF ___________________)
COUNTY OF ____________________)ss.


On this ____ day of ________________, 20__, before me personally appeared (name of person acknowledging) to me known to be the person who executed the foregoing instrument, and he (she) thereupon duly acknowledged to me that he (she) executed the same to be his (her) free act and deed.

(Notary signs here)
<end quote>

I'd like to comment on a few of the key words/phrases for this sentence to make sense:

personally appeared -- The signer(s) were in the same room with the notary.

to me known to be the person -- The notary ("me") knows through satisfactory proof who the signer is.

who executed -- The signer put his signature on the document for the purpose of agreeing to the document, not for some trivial reason such as telling which copy was his copy.

foregoing instrument -- The document that comes before this instrument of acknowledgement certificate.

acknowledged to me that he (she) -- The signer tells the notary that he (she) signed the document in order to agree to it, and is acting of his/her own free will. In the sentence, "me" is the notary and "he (she)" is the signer.

the same to be his (her) free act and deed -- "the same" refers back to the instrument, "his (her)" is still the signer, and "free act and deed" means acting of his/her own free will.

My full time job is teaching, and I find it is not unusual for students to use words that they do not fully understand. I find it beneficial to stop and think about the meaning of words that we throw around. Would anyone like to add any words that sometimes confuse people?

Reply by Gerry_VT on 11/12/05 7:46am
Msg #76085

OOPS

In my previous post, in the sentence "The document that comes before this instrument of acknowledgement certificate", please strike the phrase "instrument of".

Reply by LilyMD on 11/12/05 7:58am
Msg #76087

Re: Acknowlegment and Notary 101

Gerry, I see your point. However, YES, there are things a notary should have knowledge of before setting out to notarize everything in sight. Acknowledgements are one of those basic points.
As for the different wordings, I was raised by a high school English teacher! The best lesson in grammer came from her. She said sound it out. If it sounds funny or wrong to say it, than it's probably wrong to write it. It was a good lesson that help me throughout high school and college. I graduated Magna cum laude.

Reply by Teddog_CO on 11/12/05 8:16am
Msg #76092

Re: Acknowlegment and Notary 101

You can be a Professional Certified Notary Signing Agent. You must study to become one. And keep on learning. Read, Study, Research and apply what you have learned. That's what I learned in grammer school. Wouldn't the nuns' be proud to know that I still remember and apply their training every day.

The point is, what I've been seeing on this board is just plain "to lazy to study or look it up" questions. It just drives me crazy.

I am no teacher but I do know better.

Teddog_CO

Reply by LilyMD on 11/12/05 8:19am
Msg #76093

Re: Acknowlegment and Notary 101...well said...n/m

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/12/05 8:21am
Msg #76095

AMEN Brother Teddog!.....n/m

Reply by Danny_FL on 11/12/05 8:24am
Msg #76096

Re: AMEN Brother Teddog!.....n/m

Bows to the great and powerful Oz err Teddog.....n/m

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/12/05 8:40am
Msg #76101

Re: Gerry

While I applaud you for your patience and explanation of Notary 101, it *still* boils down to the fact that many of these people only recently became a Notary, probably at the same time the NNA clouded their minds with how much money they could make with this wonderful opportunity. It is not fair to the general public, i.e., Borrowers to have these *Notary interns in training* sitting opposite Borrowers who are signing some of the most important papers of their life and will make the biggest impact on their lives.

If these people can't even figure out Venue and acknowledgement wording, what are they going to do when the Borrowers ask them a question at the table? Are they going to have their laptop with them so they can tap out a question on NotRot or GMN saying they need a quick answer? Hopefully, they won't stammer and stutter and end up giving something that could be construed as UPL.

In addition to learning Notary 101 forward and backward before accepting their first signing, they had better purchase $100,000 E&O insurance - BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO NEED IT !!!

Reply by Teddog_CO on 11/12/05 8:43am
Msg #76102

Carolyn! You are so correct !!!

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/12/05 8:43am
Msg #76103

Re: P.S.

this has nothing to do with us all trying to learn to get along.

Reply by Beth/MD on 11/12/05 8:48am
Msg #76106

Re: Lily, Teddog, Carolyn...

I couldn't have said it better myself. There's no excuse for not having a basic knowledge of your business. My gosh, would you want a brain surgeon operating on you if he wasn't sure just what the obdula oblongata was? Sorry Gerry, it's not about grammer and wording.

Reply by Teddog_CO on 11/12/05 9:05am
Msg #76115

Gee! Don't they have a board to ask ? LOL

Reply by Beth/MD on 11/12/05 9:08am
Msg #76117

Re: Gee! Don't they have a board to ask ? LOL

I hope the brain surgeon posts his question in enough time to get a suitable answer. I mean, it would be terrible to have to post "in a hurry" as he's scrubbing in....

Reply by Teddog_CO on 11/12/05 9:40am
Msg #76126

Beth/MD you are funny!! I can just picture it ! LOL

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/12/05 3:41pm
Msg #76164

SPELLING POLICE

3 different people misspelled the word "grammar" in this thread. Grammer is the star of "Frasier", grammar is the proper usage of language.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/12/05 7:55pm
Msg #76206

Re: SPELLING POLICE

Why do you care how people spell? Is it because you're just one of those people that just has to have something to go on about? I wouldn't worry if people could spell grammar are not, what matters is the proper grammar that is used when telling you to just go away.

Reply by GEN_LEE on 11/12/05 8:33pm
Msg #76209

Re: SPELLING POLICE

"I wouldn't worry if people could spell grammar are not,"

LOL

Reply by Anonymous on 11/12/05 10:20pm
Msg #76217

Re: SPELLING POLICE

Wow, you're just sharp as a tack, aren't you? You wouldn't know the inside joke if it bit you in the butt.

Reply by JRinFL on 11/13/05 8:24am
Msg #76225

Re: SPELLING POLICE

I know its not popular to criticize a person's spelling, but if Calinotary hadn't said something, I was going to. I just felt it was ironic that there was so much criticism being hurled at those you say are too lazy to look up the meaning of words, while even simpler words were being mispelled. I also saw "explanation" mispelled in another recent post (spelled explaination).

Normally, I don't say anything when I see spelling errors in a post. I assume its a typo or something. But it is wrong to criticize some for their lack of knowledge on the meaning of words when the same person can not even spell them correctly. I think we should all try to be a little more tolerant.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/14/05 5:54pm
Msg #76482

Spelling police - lose and loose

Two words that I see misspelled or misused constantly on this board are "lose" and "loose", and it drives me nuts. Yes, I have too much free time, unfortunately.
Example: I was so busy last night sending fax-backs, I thought I would loose my mind.
Or: I don't like to play the slot machines, because I'm afraid I'll loose money.
Here are the correct uses of these words:
Lose: to misplace, to be defeated, ie, "Be careful not to lose your keys." "Did you lose the bet?"
Loose: not attached, not fastened, without restraint, ie, "I had to use a loose ack because the wording was incorrect." "The tiger got loose because the cage door was unlocked." "My mother-in-law is a woman of loose morals."
Ok, I feel better now. Thanks.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/12/05 10:00pm
Msg #76216

What is even worse it title companies that cannot spell or are inconsistent in the same document! Do you tell them and crticize a client????


I have seen inconsistent mortgages and quit claim deeds, nick names on documents including identity documents. Sometimes I have called the title company on the latter and they say it will go through, thus, I note it in my journal and move.

Still frustrating for those that are precise!

Reply by GEN_LEE on 11/12/05 10:57pm
Msg #76218

"What is even worse it title companies that cannot spell or are inconsistent in the same document! Do you tell them and crticize a client????"

lol - Oh, I'm so sorry. Was that an inside joke????

Reply by Beth/MD on 11/13/05 9:32am
Msg #76230

Re: You all are arguing over spelling and grammar?...n/m