Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 7:02pm
Msg #74897

Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at once

What a day..I just had to post this..excuse me for ranting. A day in the life of a signing service is not as wonderful as some of you think (LOL). I have an SA(lets call her JAX to protect her identity) who I have been working with for over 2 years now. JAX also runs her own SS. I considered JAX a friend and often shared some of my top closers names with her when she didnt have closers in specific areas. I also have this client (lets call them CW) who I have worked with for over a year now...Well last month I assigned JAX's associate to do a closing for this client CW(JAX has also performed a closing for CW through my company). This past Friday, one of my other SA's in South Fl called me and said....I just got an order for a closing from JAX for a TC named CW out of Tampa..This SA has gotten many orders from my company for CW and was a bit confused as to why JAX was calling her rather than me.

WELL...apparently my client (CW) approached JAX to work with them directly unbeknownst to me and JAX accepted. JAX than contacted me to get her a closer for the South Florida closing that she needed to schedule for my client CW....so I basically scheduled the closing that she back doored me on....Gotta love it.

I am by no means perfect but I guess I just expect people to operate with the same honesty and ethics that I do...Nothing like getting slapped in the face to wake me up.....

And people wonder why I have a non-compete??????

Reply by K_CA on 11/7/05 7:07pm
Msg #74900

Did "Jax" sign your non-compete?

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 7:12pm
Msg #74902

Yes JAX signed the non compete and the funny thing is, I also have this statement on the bottom of ALL of the confirmations I send to my clients (the title companies):

EXCLUSIVE MANAGEMENT OF SIGNING AGENTS. By accepting this SLB closing confirmation, the Title Company acknowledges that each Signing Agent Consultant provided by SLB is contractually precluded from soliciting business from or performing real estate closing services for the Title Company directly. The Title Company also agrees not to directly employ any Signing Agent currently under contract with SLB without prior, written approval of an SLB Officer or Director.


So basically, the TC broke our agreement as well.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 7:19pm
Msg #74903

Oh and I forgot to mention...what makes this even more interesting is that CW is owned by my husbands cousin. She knew nothing about all of this because she was on maternity leave but can it get any more complicated?

Reply by B__CA on 11/7/05 8:21pm
Msg #74911

For your sake I hope the cousin can get this straightened out.

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/7/05 7:39pm
Msg #74904

Sherry,
It's a pity that your non-compete clause is not worth the paper it is printed on in many states.

So why do you think the client that was so happy with you approached someone else to them to their list of direct vendors? If they were so happy with you they would not have sought out another vendor.

Welcome to the real business world.

Reply by SLP_VA on 11/7/05 7:43pm
Msg #74906

I'm sorry to hear that Sherry! Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of working with you as of yet, but according to so many on this board, you are a good SS and good person to work for. It's a shame you had to be back doored from someone you thought you could trust. It's ok though...what comes around goes around. I am a firm believer in that. Take it in stride and chalk it up to it being all about the biz..

Have a good night!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 7:49pm
Msg #74908

Thank you for your positive feedback SLP. It is truly appreciated...Its all about Karma..what comes around goes around I guess. You have a good night as well!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 7:47pm
Msg #74907

Do you know the reason they are not using us any longer? The explanation given to me was because we charged too many fees (additional trip miles paid to closers for travel, fees charged when a closer printed docs and loan did not close). So basically PAUL..the reason they didnt want to work with us any longer is because we charged additional fees to compensate our closers for their time, money and expenses. That is why they chose not to utilize our services. So what will they do now you ask? Probably work with a SS who contracts with the "bottom feeders" who are willing to take any fee.

I think you were missing my point anyway...I dont care if they use another SS (because frankly I had to wait 3 months for payment on outstanding invoices anyway) but what truly bothers me is that my client chose one of the closers that I provided them with to approach about work and that the SA that I trusted to go and represent me, decides to bite the hand that feeds them and make me provide her with the closer for my client. That was the point of this all.

And to be honest, if that is your idea of the real business world, please do not register with my company. Thanks!

Reply by Tennessee on 11/7/05 8:26pm
Msg #74912

SLB ethics and honor...

I was honored to do a signing for SLB a few days ago. Sherry has a professional staff that knows what they're talking about and I was treated with complete respect. My signing turned into a split which was ok with me and I contacted SLB to let them know. I didn't ask for a specific $ amount, I wanted to see how they would handle my "request" for an additional payment and I left it to their discreation on the amount. I am pleased to say that they offered me exactly what I would have asked for, no questions asked. They are smooth to do business with and I look forward to hearing from them again. I wish everyone I dealt with had their ethics, their honor...an absolute breath of fresh air!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 10:32pm
Msg #74937

Re: SLB ethics and honor...

WOW..you just made me proud to own SLB SIGNING Tennessee. I may need to get permission to borrow those words for an upcoming brochure. Thanks for the compliments. They mean more than you know!

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/7/05 9:52pm
Msg #74922

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

"And to be honest, if that is your idea of the real business world, please do not register with my company."

But that IS how it is in the real business world. Some people have ethics, some don't. Some people will cut anyone's throat for a buck. Doesn't make it right, but it is realistic.

That's exactly why I'm always amazed at how many people on this board are ready and willing to go out of their way to provide mentoring, personal assitance, networking, share company info, etc. with virtual strangers. It may be a nice thing to do, but it can also be a very dumb thing to do and can do real damage to your own livelihood.

You have to have a different mentality in business and put your financial interests above your emotional interests. You can't always trust people to do the right thing, and you never know who is going to breach that trust. Goodwill should only extend to the point where it can't be turned around and used against you. To run a business any other way is really really foolish.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/7/05 9:53pm
Msg #74923

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

Calinotary

AMEN!

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/7/05 10:56pm
Msg #74943

Sherry,
Since 99% of my business comes from Title companies so I doubt I would be actively seeking to register with your signing service.

You miss the point the SA you are talking about also operates a signing service so the SA was in fact your competition which you were aware of from the beginning. From your posting the SA did not actively seek out your client and try to under bid your contract. Your client was the one that actively sought out this other signing service and established a direct business relationship.

I do not know how well you pay or anything about you or your company. Some siging services are as bad or worse that the $45-50 notaries that NNA pumps out each week. Your bottom line is profit as is mine. If you have two people in an area who both do good work you will always call the one that charges you the least and only if the less expensive notary is busy will you then call the more expensive notary. That is just a simple fact of business.
The key is to provide the extra value if you charge the higher price. I have been in real estate and title since 1989 so I understand what competition is all about. If you do not understand the reality of business you will not be around long.

My comment about welcome to the business world was not meant as an insult and if you took it that way then you better get some thicker skin.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 8:31am
Msg #74988

Paul..I have been around for 3 years now and I dont see us going anywhere....Or block of business has quadrupled in the past 2 years. You have people on here ranting and raving all the time about measly fees that SS pay. Well I do not operate like that. I compensate closers for what they deserve and unfortunately, this particular client did not agree with the fees that I was charging (i.e. $25 extra for additional mileage, $50 for print/cancellation - all of which went directly to the SA). It has nothing to do with "extra value"...what does that mean? If extra value is referring to good service, than we do provide that!

I fully understand the reality of business but it does not mean that I have to agree with unethical behavior! First off, this SA was once just an SA that I worked with. We communicated quite frequently regarding the industry and such. She scratched my back and I scratched hers persay....

If I gained a "thicker skin" as you stated above, than I wouldnt think anything was wrong with stabbing people in the back. I would think it was "just part of the business world." And if I wasnt insulted about this situation wouldn't I be just like the rest of them(those who choose to operate this way)? Instead I choose to to take the high road and jsut come on here and complain about them.

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/8/05 1:17pm
Msg #75082

Sherry,

Using your logic if a SA has been getting TC X'x business from XYZ Signing and suddenly he gets a call from SLB Signing and accepts and when the confirmation arrives he finds it is for TC X.
Should he immediately call XYZ signing and report that TC X is now also using SLB? Should the SA turn down this assignment because it is not coming from XYZ?

SA's advertise here, on other sites, their own websites, NSA and the list goes on. All the TC needs to do is Google.

If you want blind loyalty then get a dog.
Independent contractors are in business for themselves so their primary loyalty it to their business. Business owners take every opportunity to grow their business and when presented with the opportunity to get a new client that may bring them more business or simply make their existing business more profitable.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:23pm
Msg #75084

I think we are getting a bit ridiculous PAUL...If you read my initial post...one of the closers that I work with was assigned to perform the said closing. I have no problem with this...

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/8/05 1:39pm
Msg #75094

She also runs a Signing Service

They contacted her!

It was their decision!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:49pm
Msg #75098

Re: She also runs a Signing Service

They talked to her about this while she was performing a signing for me.........

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/7/05 8:35pm
Msg #74914

One of the most unfortunate things about this business is that there is no loyalty or ethics for the most part. Every $5 seems to count in a way I cannot understand.

From what I have seen it seems as if you have down well if this is the first big throat cutting you have experienced. Your client will probably be back...not because of loyalty, but because it will serve them to come back. I'd guess this is going to be temporary or has something to do with a new client of CW's.

I have never believed that an SS had an easy job.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/7/05 8:44pm
Msg #74916

Just out of curiousity, do you get most of your sa's from signingagent.com or do you mainly get them from your database? This is an unreal story and what a real low this must be.

I read in your other post that you charge mileage etc.....maybe this is none of my business but have you thought of just one inclusive fee to the TC? I'm sure you already thought of that or do that I am just curious to see what your other avenues are for a better profit to you as well.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 8:36am
Msg #74991

We do charge set fees but we like to give our clients the option...If for some reason we cannot get one of our regular closers to fill the order, we give our clients the chose of paying one of our regular closers an additional fee to travel a greater distance OR we can assign someone that we are not familiar with to close their loan for the normal fee. That is why there are somtimes additional fees involved. There are also occassions when we simply cannot find a closer within a 60 mile radius because the closing is in a rural area. We also need to charge additional fees to pay the closer in this situation.

Reply by DogmongerCA on 11/7/05 9:43pm
Msg #74921

If your non compete is legal in the State of Florida

I would turn this mess over to my attorney and him or her write a Cease and Decist, sp, letter and make sure that your former friend knows the exact consequences of her actions. This is not meant as legal advice, merely an opinion of a non attorney. Hope it works out for you and your company:-)

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/7/05 9:56pm
Msg #74924

Re: If your non compete is legal in the State of Florida

I'm curious as to how she'll handle the non-compete agreement myself. If it's not legal, what's the point of having it? And if it is legal, is it really worth the expense of trying to enforce it? And if it's not worth the expense, then again, what's the point of having it to begin with?

Reply by srnotary_CA on 11/7/05 10:01pm
Msg #74925

Re: If your non compete is legal in the State of Florida

I am sorry to hear about that SLB hopefully it will all work out in the end for you because I have also read some good things about your company. best wishes and good luck.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/7/05 10:13pm
Msg #74927

Sherry, it's tough but true...it's just the way of the world. Know one thing..by being professional and having a sterling reputation will do far more for you than chasing down this SA. Yes, what goes around comes around, but better - if your business and reputation is as good as the posts on this board...you'll outlive this, quite well.

As you grow, so will your challenges! Apply the same thoughtfulness and business sense you've shown so far to this situation.

If you decide to pursue the non-compete provision - keep us posted. Alot of us want to know. In the meantime, one TC and one SA will not make or break you. Good luck.

Reply by srnotary_CA on 11/7/05 10:17pm
Msg #74929

Well Said titlegal!!!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 10:28pm
Msg #74935

Thank you all for your kind remarks

I really feel better hearing everyones opinion. It has happened before and will happen again. I truly want to thank all of your for allowing me (the outsider SS) to come on here and participate in your discussions and post dilemmas of my own. I really value "most" of your opinions and look forward to seeing your different viewpoints on situations.

As far as the non-compete...it is in place for situations exactly like this. I will not use it for legal action because I honestly don't want relationships with clients who choose to operate this way. It is in place more as a reference than anything else because unlike other SS's, we give our SA's direct contact with our clients because we feel that the more hand that are in the pot, the messier things can get. It is more of a deterant than anything else.

In a way, this situation is quite comical due to the fact that my client was changing SS's but SLB was still technically the one who scheduled the closing..LOL

Thanks again all!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 10:29pm
Msg #74936

Re: Thank you all for your kind remarks

"As far as the non-compete...it is in place for situations exactly like this. I will not use it for legal action because I honestly don't want relationships with clients who choose to operate this way."

from above..I meant SA's and clients

Reply by Jacqi Shifflett on 11/7/05 11:39pm
Msg #74954

Re: Thank you all for your kind remarks

Sherry,
I would like to sign up with your company if you need closers on the eastern shore of Md. I feel for you.... and appreciate your postings here. Things will work out for you, good people always prevail in the end. Hang in there!!!!!

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 6:59am
Msg #74970

I've never seen a non-compete that held up in Florida. Florida is a right-to-work state and the right to work goes both ways. I would question the non-compete in an independent contractor set up. If the hiring entity is going to dictate who I can and can not work for, dosen't that put the in an employer position? Dosen't this take the independent out of independent contractor?

I'll have to do some research on this. I remember reading about the fine line between independent contractor and employee and think it might be worth your time to read, Sherry.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 7:46am
Msg #74973

I provide all of the closers (in my confirmation) contact information for my clients so that they can check on docs, send docs back, and contact them with any quetions. So are you saying that it is acceptable for a closer that I assign to do a closing on my behalf to solicit my client directly??? I have said this in previous posts...I have never used the non-compete for legal purposes because it probably wouldn't stand up in court. I have it in place because I give my closers direct access to my clients and should a closer choose to go the unethical route and decide to solicit my client, I simply let them know that they signed a non-compete and agreed to refrain from such action and since they chose to break an agreement, I choose not to work with them any longer. It always comes back to bite them in the butt! I would also like to say that I believe that the majority of clsoers out there would not stoop to such a level but there are some that feel that instead of using there own intellect and drive to get ahead, it is OK to stab others in the back. Frankly, I wouldnt want relationships with closers/clients who think this is acceptable and just part of doing business. Yeah maybe for those of us who have no morals or values....

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 8:06am
Msg #74978

>>>So are you saying that it is acceptable for a closer that I assign to do a closing on my behalf to solicit my client directly??? <<<

Not what I said at all. I simply questioned the use of a non-compete in an independent contractor situation.

You are correct (or at least I hope you are) stating that most SA do have ethics and would not go after your clients. Most SSs operate the way you do with out the non-compete.

I have gone after a SSs clients just once. Maybe some of you remember MortgageNotary. When I was not paid and they closed their doors, I went after every client I had info. on and turned the contact info. over to my favorite SS in Florida when I was not successful. I would NEVER actively market to a TC that I knew had a business agreement with a SS that I did business with.

A lock keeps an honest man honest, but it won't keep a crook out. That's what my Grandpa used to say.

Gotta go.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 8:12am
Msg #74982

"A lock keeps an honest man honest, but it won't keep a crook out. "

Good analogy. I guess you can consider my noncompete the lock...that is why I have one.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 11:41am
Msg #75037

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

"Yeah maybe for those of us who have no morals or values..."

Not everybody has the same morals and values. They're not set in stone, and just because yours are what they are doesn't mean that anybody who thinks differently is immoral.

This discussion reminds me of the show "Survivor". There are always a couple of people on there who yammer on about playing with integrity and honesty, and that they would never stoop to the levels of some of the other players.

Those players are always voted off relatively early because that kind of thinking is the polar opposite of what it takes to win on the show. The people who get far in the game are the ones who take advantage of the opportunities presented to them and working in the parameters of what it takes to be successful in that environment.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 11:51am
Msg #75041

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

I guess I would rather get voted off and be remembered as the one who stood up for what she believed in instead of being remembered as the winner who stabbed every one and there mother in the back. It aint all about the money people. We arent going to be taken it to our graves with us.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 11:57am
Msg #75045

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

"It aint all about the money people."

When you're trying to run a profitable business it's mostly about the money.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 12:09pm
Msg #75053

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

I run quarter of a million dollar business Cali and I have done it honestly.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/8/05 8:09am
Msg #74980

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

Becca, there are many court cases in which the non-compete clause was upheld. There are also many that they weren't. The courts have been very strict in providing the guidelines as to what constitutes a valid non-compete agreement. And from my research, they all seem to be with an employee/employer relationship, not a contractor/sub-contractor relationship.

The Florida "Right to Work" is very limited. It deals with union/non-union issues.

Fla. Const. Article 1, § 6. Right to Work

The right of persons to work shall not be denied or abridged on account of membership or non-membership in any labor union or labor organization. The right of employees, by and through a labor organization, to bargain collectively shall not be denied or abridged. Public employees shall not have the right to strike. (Adopted at General Election November 5, 1968.)

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 12:09pm
Msg #75051

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

I was speaking specifically about contractor/sub-contractor relationships. That is, after all, what we are discussing here.

>>>The right of persons to work shall not be denied or abridged on account of membership or non-membership in any labor union or labor organization. <<<

So, does a Florida Signing Service have the right to deny me work bassed on the fact that I am not a member of the NNA or a CNSA just because that is what THEY require?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/8/05 12:42pm
Msg #75068

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

>>> So, does a Florida Signing Service have the right to deny me work bassed on the fact that I am not a member of the NNA or a CNSA just because that is what THEY require? <<<

Actually they do, in that they are not required to consider you as a vendor, using "Right to Work" as leverage. The Right to Work is based on labor unions and organizations, which the NNA is not one, nor does there exist a labor union for signing agents. A contractor (e.g. Signing Services, title companies and even lenders) can determine their own 'rules' for choosing vendors. If one of those rules are that the vendor must be a member of the NNA, so be it. Just like some 'require' a background check be performed. Others 'require' 100K of E&O coverage. As an independent contractor, we have the right to choose how we do business. If the two business models do not match or integrate (contractor <-> sub-contractor), then a business relationship probably will not be struck.

Can you be denied from obtaining work elsewhere? Probably not.

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 1:10pm
Msg #75079

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

I do understand the "no shirt, no service" rule of business. I was just pointing out that I believe the NNA is trying to act as a Notary Union. The NNA is setting price guide lines and pandering to the Notaries of the Nation that they are the only association that works for the Notary. Blah, blah, blah.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:27pm
Msg #75085

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

PAW..thank you for the post on RIGHT TO WORK. I am not up to par on some of this information and it is nice to see someone who is. I appreciate you sharing and I hope you know that I respect your opinion.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/8/05 8:22am
Msg #74987

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

>>> If the hiring entity is going to dictate who I can and can not work for, dosen't that put the in an employer position? Dosen't this take the independent out of independent contractor? <<<

I agree, Becca. Sherry has stated that she emphatically announces, "EXCLUSIVE MANAGEMENT OF SIGNING AGENTS" right on her invoices. To me (not to be interpreted as legal interpretation or legal advice), this places the independent contractor in an employer/employee relationship. As an independent contractor, I and only I manage my business and choose whomever I wish to work with. I will agree not to actively seek direct hiring from a client's client through proactive and direct solicitation, but if I were approached by the client's client, then it is within my rights as an independent contractor to work with that client.

Also, I don't know who my clients clients are except in those cases where I am doing an assignment. As an independent contractor, I am constantly advertising my services to a vast audience and I'm sure some of them are also my clients clients. Would this be in violation of a "non-compete" clause? Legally, I doubt it, but from a client's (or perspective client's) point of view it certainly may appear as such.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 8:47am
Msg #74994

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

>>>As an independent contractor, I am constantly advertising my services to a vast audience and I'm sure some of them are also my clients clients. Would this be in violation of a "non-compete" clause?<<<

I would in no way interpret that as a violation of my non compete. I am fully aware that when I am working with 600 signing agents nationwide, our paths are defiately going to cross. I also realize that you guys need to market your business as well and I know that you are going to "UNKNOWINGLY" going to market to some of my clients and tha is fine. The key phrase in my non compete is "KNOWINGLY"....this SA knowingly accepted work from one of my clients PAW.

>>>>"I will agree not to actively seek direct hiring from a client's client through proactive and direct solicitation, but if I were approached by the client's client, then it is within my rights as an independent contractor to work with that client"<<<<

Do you really think that this is OK PAW? I am providing you with information on my client and putting you in contact with them and you think it is OK to accept work from them directly and cut me out of everything? I would have to totally disagree with you on this. When I was an SA, I for one would never think of biting the hand that feeds me. Yes you have the "right" to work with whomever you want but it doesnt make it right to do.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/8/05 9:09am
Msg #75001

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

>>>>"I will agree not to actively seek direct hiring from a client's client through proactive and direct solicitation, but if I were approached by the client's client, then it is within my rights as an independent contractor to work with that client"<<<<

Do you really think that this is OK PAW? I am providing you with information on my client and putting you in contact with them and you think it is OK to accept work from them directly and cut me out of everything? I would have to totally disagree with you on this. When I was an SA, I for one would never think of biting the hand that feeds me. Yes you have the "right" to work with whomever you want but it doesnt make it right to do.

----- ----- ----- -----

It doesn't make any difference what "I think". I'm not talking about principles, scruples and ethics. I'm talking about a legal right for an independent contractor to accept work directly from a client's client when approached by the client's client. There may be many reasons that the client's client is dissatisfied with their vendor (our client). From an IC/client relationship, this happens and from what I can determine, is within the scope of the IC to accept.

Personally, do I think this is okay? Depends on the situation. I wouldn't simply accept it out of hand. If I knew there was an existing relationship between the company and my vendor, I would certainly attempt to find out why. And if I had a good relationship with my vendor, I would more than likely protect that relationship and inform my vendor of the solicitation by their vendor.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 9:15am
Msg #75005

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

Thank you for the clarification in the last sentence of how you would handle the situation. That seems the more appropraite way to handle things.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/8/05 9:25am
Msg #75008

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

Over the past 5 years doing this as a full time NSA, there have been a few instances where I have been directly approached by a lender and title company even though I previously had been working through a signing service. As it turns out, there were many, many issues between me and the signing service as well as the title company and lender with that same service. Did I do wrong in accepting the direct relationship? I think not. I only work for a few signing services and funny thing is, sometimes I'll get an assignment with a lender or TC that I already have a direct relationship with. And I still get direct assignments as well as indirect (through the SS).

Reply by LawrenceOK on 11/8/05 11:00am
Msg #75027

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

Well Paw, according to Sherry and others here, you and I are UNETHICAL.

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 12:19pm
Msg #75060

My goodness Paul, we DO think a like.................n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 12:17pm
Msg #75058

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

I've accepted a job from a TC for which I had previously received work for from a SS. AND I have, on occasion, even called the SS that was booking for the TC only to find that the SS had droped the TC for whatever reason. If I had not accepted the job, using your reasoning, I would not have gotten the job at all. The TC would have continued calling SAs.

Do an excellent job and they will come. Keep doing an excellent job and they will stay.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 11/8/05 9:01am
Msg #74997

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

I agree Paw, I would never actively seek out one of my clients clients. However, as an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, I have the right to work for whoever solicits my services. The non-compete contracts should be left to agreements among TC's and SS's, leave the SA's out of it. Call it what ya want folks, but if the phone rings, I'm answering it.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 9:05am
Msg #75000

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

Ok I'll call it UNETHICAL.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 9:11am
Msg #75002

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

I agree with this one. It is unethical and this is a "small" business, everyone knows everyone. Sooner than later, word will get out to other SS's that you are "stealing business" and you won't get any calls at all. If a TC solicits me I refer them to the SS and let them know that it would be nice for them to request me through the SS. 9 times out of 10 you're going to end up with that signing anyway and gain more respect not only from the SS but the TC too and more than likely get more closings that way.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 9:12am
Msg #75004

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

That is what I am talking about and ANON1 you are just the type of ETHICAL person that I would choose to work with.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 9:11am
Msg #75003

Heres my client list - use it as you please

I guess I should just hand you guys my client list on a gold platter with a little cherry on top...so what you are saying is that if you have done 15 closings for XYZ title company through SLB SIGNING and XYZ title company approaches you directly to work with them (during a phone conversation regarding a closing that you are doing on behalf ofSLB), it is OK to accept business from them? Thats OK to do?

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 9:19am
Msg #75006

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

lol. Reason #876 why I won't post my name or information. You never know who you will run into on the in-ter-net, good or bad.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 11:26am
Msg #75033

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

"so what you are saying is that if you have done 15 closings for XYZ title company through SLB SIGNING and XYZ title company approaches you directly to work with them (during a phone conversation regarding a closing that you are doing on behalf ofSLB), it is OK to accept business from them?"

Yep, it sure is. Depending on how much work you get from the SS it might not be the smartest thing to do, but there is NOTHING unethical about accepting unsolicited work from a TC.

Obviously the TC had a reason for wanting to find a different SS than SLB - they wanted someone who charged fewer "incidental" fees. Whether or not you think the additional fees are warranted (and I agree with you that they are) is irrelevant. The TC has the right to use whatever vendors work with their business model and because of the fees, you were no longer it.

That the TC chose to look for another SS should not, and does not automatically exclude anybody who has happened to work for your company. It makes good business sense for the TC to offer the work to somebody whose work they're at least somewhat familiar with than to take a chance on somebody they've never used before.

It sounds to me like you were going to lose this TC anyway. They didn't stab you in the back, they just didn't want to use you anymore. This type of thing goes on all the time in business; people lose accounts, other people pick up those accounts. Nothing unusual or unethical about it, it's just reality.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 11/8/05 11:32am
Msg #75035

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

Thank you Calinotary.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 11:35am
Msg #75036

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

I beg to differ with you on the majority of what you said..so if you owned a SS and a closer did that to you, that would be fine with you? Oh and BTW, just to clarify, I did not lose their business totally. I am still working with one of their other offices.

Lets analyze the definition of UNETHICAL shall we?

1. An action or conduct which violates the principles of one or more ethical systems, or which is counter to an accepted ethical value, such as honesty.


2. not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; "unethical business practices"

I think back dooring someone can clearly fall under the definition of UNETHICAL.....

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 11:49am
Msg #75039

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

But YOU WEREN'T BACK DOORED!

The TC didn't like the fees you charged so they decided to seek another vendor. Perfectly fine and ethical. The other SS was offered, with no solicitation on her part, an account and she chose to accept. Perfectly ethical. That you had an existing business relationship with both of them does not mean they have to run it all by you for your approval. Maybe we should analyze the definition of EGO?

You seem to be confusing your opinion with ethics. Just because you don't like something doesn't automatically make it unethical.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 12:22pm
Msg #75061

EGO? - OK here we go with chastising....

It aint about ego. Its about principle. Cali..the owner (who was unaware that all of this was going on) of the TC in question even called it backdooring.

I guess I should just print off a copy of my closer database and provide it to my clients and print off a copy of my client database and provide it to my closers. That would save me some time and money.

I remember a thread awhile back talking about a board for SS's to post. I would live to post this thread and see the reactions. I am sure that the majority of SS's would agree that this is backdooring.

Cali..why dont you pass me some of your clients contact info and while your at it pass my name along to them as well. I promise not to market to them but if they call me, I will definately accept business from them.

So maybe I should change my name to SLB - THE COMPANY WHO MARKETS YOUR NAME FOR FREE....

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 12:29pm
Msg #75065

Re: EGO? - OK here we go with chastising....

Sherry - To me, the bottom line is that you trusted the wrong person with what you precieve to be valuable, propriatary (sp) information. You made a bad business decision and it proved itself to be a bad decision later on.

Fix it, move on, and don't make the same mistake again. There is no document or non-compete that can help you in the future if you continue to make the same mistakes.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 12:46pm
Msg #75069

Re: EGO? - OK here we go with chastising....

You're right Sherry. We're all wrong and you're right. That's obviously all you want to hear and will obviously whine until the bitter end (and respond to every single post) until you get it. So there it is.

But it's my own fault really, for thinking this thread would be any different than any of your other whiny and pigheaded endless threads.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:10pm
Msg #75080

Re: EGO? - OK here we go with chastising....

Quite the professional CaliNotary..Did I say something that offended you or does the truth just hurt?

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/8/05 1:32pm
Msg #75090

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

Actually Sherry there is nothing Ethical or Unethical about this situation except in your own mind. Is there a signing agents or better yet a signing services code of Ethics that we have all missed?

There is no implied Ethics in the Vendor/Vendee relationship. The only thin you were owed is that the vendee performed the assignment that was accepted and the only thing owed by you is the agreed upon fee.

This is a result of a business decision by the TC to use another vendor. Should that new vendor have said " No I think you should keep working with your current signing service but thanks for the offer."

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 1:42pm
Msg #75095

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

OK, I have to give my opinion and once again I'm going to say the saaaaaaaaaaame thing! If a TC calls me directly I would refer them to the SS!! If the TC does not want to use that SS anymore that's up to them but I'm sorry, my loyalty would be to the person who has given me signings to begin with!

Sherry does NOT have the ego here. It is apparent that she is very smart, patient and extremely nice to all of her SA's. This board truly does make me sick sometimes with how incredibly rude some people can be. Were you brought up in trailer trash???

This goes to show you cannot trust ANYONE when it comes to business and for as much as some of you wonder why people post anon, it makes ME WONDER why you are so willing to turn over your information so fast!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:49pm
Msg #75097

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

Once again Anon1, thanks for stating your opinion. I also appreciate you coming to my defense when I have a select few who want to pick apart every darn word I say and call me names for no apparent reason. After posting here on occassion, I guess I should know by now that there are a few bad apples who like to make it a war. I truly like seeing others opinions but what I dont like is being attacked, ridiculed and ganged up on when I was simply posting a situation that I peersonally think stinks. Everyone has a right to their opinions.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 1:55pm
Msg #75101

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

It does stink. I would NEVER do that to anyone. This is a competitive business but there are limits as to whose toes you wish to step on. Call me high maintenance when it comes to morals, I don't care.

People like to jump on band wagons especially when it makes "them" feel better. Generally lonely, bored and low self-esteem people.

I can GUARANTEE that those who constantly whine and put others down are the ones who make less financially. It's pure envy and jealousy. Period.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 1:58pm
Msg #75105

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

"I can GUARANTEE that those who constantly whine and put others down are the ones who make less financially. It's pure envy and jealousy. Period."

And would that include those of us who call others "trailer trash"?

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 1:54pm
Msg #75100

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

"This board truly does make me sick sometimes with how incredibly rude some people can be. Were you brought up in trailer trash???"

Oh look, you can be as rude as the people who make you sick. But I'm sure there's a reason that it's ok for YOU to do it.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:59pm
Msg #75106

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

Anon made a general statement to no one directly Cali...why are your panties in a wad over it? You point fingers in here all the time and single people out just because they have a difference in opinion from yours.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 2:01pm
Msg #75108

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

Two words: Envy. Jealousy.

Cali definitely is one of those people who enjoy putting others down to make themselves feel better. She has a LOT of time on her hands.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/8/05 2:07pm
Msg #75111

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

***She has a LOT of time on her hands.***

Gotta tell ya anon1, if you know so much about Cali, I'd think you'd guess the correct sex at least.

Better: *He* takes the time to give his honest opinion...without the fluff, PC and nicey-nicey, ooshy gooshy stuff that everyone else here seems to love to soak up 24/7 - nauseating and uninteresting.

There's NOTHING WRONG with posting an honest opinion that's not MEANT TO PLEASE. I don't read this board to smothered in "niceness".

Get an opinion and state it, even if you debate and even argue now and then!

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/8/05 2:31pm
Msg #75119

Anon

I seriously doubt anyone is jealous or envious of you. You who has so little conviction in your own opinion that you hide behind the Anon1. I have absolutely nothing against Sherry but you on the other hand are are a coward.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 2:36pm
Msg #75120

Re: Anon

Paul - Ok.

As stated about 10 times now, I post as anon because I don't need psycho's "stealing" my business, having my address/phone numbers. I work hard for my money and I for one do not trust people on the IN-TER-NET!

If you want to choose to broadcast your information, that is your choice. It is my choise to post as anon1. I could change my name to BurgerKing but it wouldn't make a difference. I would still be posting as anonymous which is how "I" want it. If you don't like it, too bad!

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/8/05 2:47pm
Msg #75128

Re: Anon

Sounding a little parinoid! Maybe you should adjust your tinfoil hat! I doubt anyone will be stealing your $40 signings.

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 2:51pm
Msg #75133

Tinfoil hat? LMAOROF.....n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 2:09pm
Msg #75112

Anon1, pot calling the kettle?

My Mother was raised in a trailer and I know of others (yes, some on this board) that either live or have lived in a trailer. Why do you bash people that live and or lived in trailers?

Aren't you the one being incredibly rude now by making assumptions about people that have lived in trailers?

How ignorant of you! No wonder you don't have the cajones to post your name. I'm embarased for you, you pathetic thing.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 2:12pm
Msg #75114

Re: Anon1, pot calling the kettle?

Sorry to hear about your mom and the others who live in trailers. That must suck, big time!

I think my patience with some of the people on here is coming to its limits so I can be just as snotty and will. Thanks.

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/8/05 2:10pm
Msg #75113

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

Trailer Trash,
Now that is funny! You really shouldn't talk about yourself like that!

Another posting from the cowardly Anon1, if you feel that strongly about your opinions then why hide behind Anon1.

I am going to make this simple so even you might be able to understand this..I said previously that I have never done business with SLB and have no idea how well or nice she is to her SA's..I have nothing against her personally or professionally.

My only problem is the way she throws around the term ethical and unethical.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 2:13pm
Msg #75115

Re: Heres my client list - use it as you please

>>>I am going to make this simple so even you might be able to understand this..I said previously that I have never done business with SLB and have no idea how well or nice she is to her SA's..I have nothing against her personally or professionally.

My only problem is the way she throws around the term ethical and unethical>>>

And PAUL I respect the way that you phrased that. No harm done and just a difference of opinion.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 11/8/05 10:53am
Msg #75026

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

If you think I am unethical because I choose to work for whom ever calls me, then so be it! Just so you know little miss high & mighty, and you too Anon1, I have been contacted by a certain TC that I know uses the services of a certain SS here in Oklahoma and I revered them back to that SS. You should also now that I have never worked for this SS.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 11:01am
Msg #75028

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

It seems like you are singing a different tune in both of your posts Lawrence. One minute it is ok to work with someone elses client and in the next breathe, you are referring them back to the SS. A You can work with whomever you want and whomever wants to work with you. I just as soon choose not to work with SA's who think it is OK to bite the hand that feeds them thats all.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 11/8/05 11:28am
Msg #75034

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

Lets put it this way Sherry. You call me to do a signing for Joe Lender, ( I have no contract with you) I will NOT actively seek out Joe Lender for their services. However, if Joe Lender calls me a couple days later for a signing, yes I will accept. It would be something else if the SS gave me a volume business.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/8/05 12:48pm
Msg #75070

what if

XYZ Title uses direct notaries rather than services and XYZ Title is one of my clients. Your company solicits XYZ Title and they agree to try you out. You end up calling me w/an order and I accept. Over comes my confirmation and there is XYZ Title listed. Is your company going to give that order back to XYZ when I tell you that it's 'my' client?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/8/05 12:50pm
Msg #75071

Good point! (n/m)

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 1:05pm
Msg #75077

One for the Team! Thanks Sue..............n/m

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:21pm
Msg #75083

Re: what if

The key word is "KNOWINGLY"...Now how was I to know that XYZ was one of your clients?

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 11/8/05 1:27pm
Msg #75086

Re: what if

In sue's scenario once you found out upon recieving the confirmation You Do Know. Would you then refer the client to sue or would you keep the job?

Reply by sue_pa on 11/8/05 1:48pm
Msg #75096

Re: what if

Because I have told you. So, would you turn the order back once you KNOW?

And how are we to know if on 11/8 when your client calls us that they haven't fired you on 11/7?

Point being, in this business we are in a unique situation where our clients are also our competition.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:55pm
Msg #75103

Re: what if

Sue...I appreciate your take on this and I understand your point. I posted again regarding the knowing thing...I guess where I have the problem is that this SA was on a job for me when this all transpired. Believe me, I am not perfect and I do not think everyone should operate like me. I guess I just figure that I have loyalty and respect for the closers that I contract with (ie, refer them to other SS, pay them timely, give them as much work as I possibly can). My philosophy is just different. There is enough work out there for all of us...I dont need to step on other peoples toes to get it. May not be the popular opinion but I stand by it!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 1:34pm
Msg #75093

Re: what if

I have actually had this happen before and this is what I said..I am sorry, I was unaware that this was one of your clients and I apologize for putting you in this awkward position. I will be glad to assign this closing to another SA if you would like.

HOWEVER..I understand your point but the difference between this scenario and my initial post is that all parties were FULLY AWARE OF WHO WAS WHO in my situation.. I think that makes a big difference in all of this.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 11/8/05 1:54pm
Msg #75099

Re: what if

By assigning the signing to another sa you are still keeping the assignment KNOWING it is sue's client.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/8/05 1:57pm
Msg #75104

Re: what if

I think we'd have better luck convincing Nicole Brown's parents that OJ didn't do it, then we will getting Sherry to see any point of view other than her own. Out of all the valid points that have been made in this thread, I have yet to see her concede that any of them have any merit.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 2:03pm
Msg #75110

Re: what if

All but yours Cali...I would try re-reading the thread and you may have to make a correction to the above statement...I see other peoples points and I can understand what they are saying but it doesnt mean that I have to agree with them just like all of you dont agree with me....BTW would you mind posting your real name so I dont accidentally call you for a closing?

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/9/05 12:13am
Msg #75259

Re: Back doored by both a SA and a Title company - all at on

SS *A* works for TC *Z* Team "C'mon Ken, let's drink gin."

I work for SS *A* . Months later TC *Z* / Team 8675309 calls me and requests me to do a closing. Yep. YOU bet I do. I did NOT solicit around SS *A* HOWEVER, after I work for Team 8675309, I definitely solicit them.

SS *B* calls me up and has a closing for me and they are working for TC *Z* / Team 8675309. Hold on B, let me get my boots and saddle and I am there. Same fee, however. No problem!

SS *C* calls me up and has a closing for me and they are working for TC *Z* / Team "C'mon Barbie Let's Go Party." (I have worked for Barbie's group before and they are late getting invoices approved. SS *C* cuts his like clockwork. I WISH TC *Z*'s Party Barbie would always work through SS *C*...I charge the same fee.)

SS *A* is hiring someone cheaper--heck, when I worked for them I was working pretty cheaply. Oops, I forgot to have the non-compete clause signed! Oh...that's right...they can seek cheaper sources...the SA however: Bad notary, bad bad. NEVER try to better yourself or get ahead.



Yep, call me unethical if taking assignments under the above situations is a problem to you.

I do NOT solicit the SS's clients but I am NOT going to turn down a job that pays twice as much when in my situation I KNOW FOR A FACT that even good clients like to look for cheaper notaries from time to time.

Marketing our Texas NSA Network is what the group is about. When we started out, I recognized that some SSs would not like us because we are heavy into marketing our group. It worried me a little, but TC signings went up for me and I did very well for a couple of months (things are flattening out all over with refis)...the difference was made up quickly.

We are very clear on our intent to circumvent the SS (on our website) so we can get our fees up...and in the case of rev morts, we make DARN sure contacts we solicit recognize that they are getting experienced rev mort closers when they call one of us. Man oh man it feels good to get that first "requested by the lender." call.

I do quite a bit for SS ZZZ...would I ever solicit their client now that we have a relationship? Nope. No way. Will they look for a cheaper notary? Yep, You betcha...every single stinking time since I stuck to my guns and raised my prices.

SO, SHERRY, I am truly not giving you a hard time, but do you think that SS ZZZ is unethical for seeking to pay an NSA less. What is the difference? Their profit is raised if they can find a cheaper notary in rural Texas. It costs a lot to feed the camels, you know.

Camels not withstanding, an NSA should not sign a non-compete document if they are not going to honor it. However, an NSA should not be restricted from bettering his/herself. If an SS is unnecessary, they are. Sometimes they are VERY necessary for all concerned. If there was not a need for them, they would not be around. I do NOT have a problem with SSs but I do have a problem if I don't make as much as I want to make. I don't whine...I just get busy on a new marketing scheme.

I am going to put a link in my profile to one of them. Look for this in my profile:

(SEE THE NETWORK'S GROUP PICTURE AT http://......)

(Naw, I just sent it around to the network members to make them think I had lost my marbles...did not want them to know it was far worse as I am writing from a ward in a mental institution for the criminally insane. )

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/8/05 12:11pm
Msg #75055

Ditto................n/m

Reply by MABrescia on 11/8/05 9:24am
Msg #75007

Sherry... (sorry in advance for bad spelling :) !!!)

Please do not assume all notaries will do this to you. One bad apple does not say the whole tree is rotten. I dont think I have done any work for you personally, however, I would not have behaved in this fastion and I (as I am sure with many of your notaries) have a great report with all my contacts that I dont need to use those type of tactics.

Please also keep in mind that you now know, you do not want that notary in your pocket. This could have been an issue for you before and you were just not aware of that fact. Now you know. Knowing can hurt (mentally) but can be terrific for you business. It's always better to know.

I understand why you want a non-compete, as with any industry, there is those folks who will challange you and the industry as a whole. However, I feel its those very individuals that makes the rest of us look so much better. We sometimes need the bad apples to see that there really are terrific ones to be had.

Chin up, you know who they are and what they did. This person can no longer get any information from you again (unless you allow them to).

Best wishes,

M.A. Brescia

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/8/05 9:37am
Msg #75011

Re: Sherry... (sorry in advance for bad spelling :) !!!)

I wholeheartedly agree with you M.A....its really opening my eyes to the lack of integrity and ethics of some people. I appreciate your words of encouragement!

Reply by Anon1 on 11/8/05 12:16pm
Msg #75057

Re: Sherry... (sorry in advance for bad spelling :) !!!)

Desperation can make one greedy with envy! ;)

Reply by Jennifer_AZ on 11/8/05 5:58pm
Msg #75176

Let it go... :)

Sherry: Remember that what comes around goes around. You know you are running a ethical, well established and put together signing agency. If someone choses to go behind your back and steal a client from you then let them. Because in time companies will see what that individual/co. is all about and discontinue using there services. What is comming to them may not happen right away, but it will catch up to them eventually. No one needs people like that as business associates let alone friends. Stay positive and I honestly would not waste my breathe defending myself. People are going to say what they want and have no thought of how it makes you feel. They seem to be doing a good job at making you feel like you should defend yourself and you really have no reason to do so. Sad to say, but some people just do not care. I do and I do not want to see this affect you any more than it already has. Let it go..you are too good for this!

Hang in there and keep doing the great job you have been doing!!

Reply by Anonymous on 11/8/05 10:38pm
Msg #75210

Re: Let it go... :) ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

Jennifer you don't know adam from eve,....who ARE you? Did a search and up until last week you hadn't posted for what a year?
You don't know Sherry and so to be all chummy is a little over kill don't you think?

Yes, the regulars know Sherry and she will just let it go because she runs her business the way most should.

Sherry you don't have to defend yourself with anyone, we know YOU here.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/9/05 1:13am
Msg #75268

Re: Let it go... :) ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? ANON...

**Jennifer you don't know adam from eve,....who ARE you? Did a search and up until last week you hadn't posted for what a year? You don't know Sherry and so to be all chummy is a little over kill don't you think?**

Whoa!

How do you know that Jen does not know Sherry?

Are you SLB ? Or are you SLB's friend and you have boiled over because she's got another friend? Or, are you CaliNotary pretending to be KH????? (No, Sherry...I do not really mean this. Just a weird post. Wow.)

Jennifer is a pro. She's a very nice lady and even though that post of hers was too sweet for me...that's just the kind of person she is. Maybe she posts under Anon on occasion...now that's a new one for you. YOU looked her up because you like to know what everyone else is doing, but you are Anon....okay. Got it.

Jennifer, I'd like to hear from you!

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/9/05 7:11am
Msg #75279

Re: Let it go... :) ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? ANON...

Brenda...thank you!!!!

the appropiate statement by that person should had been...."Welcome back Jennifer" instead of "attacking. Some people need to grow up before you assume the worse. I don't know Jennifer or her situation, but she may have had a reason not to post for a year, and reallly why does it matter??!! She is back...and she posted a positive remark and encurabment...so the best thing to do is...

"Welcome back Jennifer...& thank you very much I appreciate that very much!"

There are some people at this site that needs to GROW UP!!! stop this damn bickering!!!

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/9/05 7:13am
Msg #75280

Re: Let it go... :) ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? ANON...

i have NO idea how i wrote "encurabment"!! that should had been encouragment!!

sorry!

<wink>