Posted by Dawn/CA on 11/20/05 9:02pm
Msg #77859

CA ID question

Borrower's name is John Garcia on docs. ID has John Garcia Sanchez. I know some people born in Mexico keep mother's or father's last name but don't use that name. Would this ID be okay?

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/20/05 9:17pm
Msg #77863

Would you be questioning this if the ID had John Robert Garicia on it?

The name on the docs isn't always, and in my experience doesn't usually match the ID exactly. If John Garcia appears somewhere on the ID that's good enough for me.

Reply by John_NorCal on 11/20/05 11:16pm
Msg #77880

I would also ask him if he had anything else with just John Garcia on it. The idea is to make sure in your mind that he is one and the same person.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 11/20/05 11:34pm
Msg #77882

If the picture and signature matches and the birth date seems reasonable, then I would accept it because the ID does have John Garcia. The key is "reasonable reliance". I would consider this reasonable.


(4) Reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following, provided that a
document specified in subparagraphs (A) to (E), inclusive, shall either be current or have been
issued within five years and shall contain a photograph and description of the person named
on it, shall be signed by the person, shall bear a serial or other identifying number, and, in the
event that the document is a passport, shall have been stamped by the United States
Immigration and Naturalization Service:
(A) A passport issued by a foreign government.
(B) A driver’s license issued by a state other than California or by a Canadian or Mexican
public agency authorized to issue drivers’ licenses.
(C) An identification card issued by a state other than California.
(D) An identification card issued by any branch of the armed forces of the United States.
(E) An inmate identification card issued on or after January 1, 1988, by the Department of
Corrections, if the inmate is in custody.
(F) An inmate identification card issued prior to January 1, 1988, by the Department of
Corrections, if the inmate is in custody.

Reply by SSEmobile on 11/21/05 12:11am
Msg #77886

You'll have to note the difference on the Affidavit of Identity, and have him initial the difference on that and any other doc covering identity, like the AKA Affi. But, you're working with a name that is VERY much like the "John Smith" of old, especially in Califonia. I would also be asking for other identity means, too. This COULD (just could, mind you) be an instance where fraud could be easily done.

If you don't check with the LO and/or bank in question, they will only have you to blame if it's the wrong person.

You don't say where you are in California, but here in San Diego that name is common, and almost NOBODY would shorten it in my experience. While I'm no attorney, if he doesn't have a copy of the birth certificate or original Social Security card there better be another reason shy he lost the family name somewhere.

Most of my aquaintences here who are Latin in heritage would probably not do so, as the family name is too important to them, but that's maybe something very local in nature here.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 11/21/05 10:48am
Msg #77947

"a copy of the birth certificate or original Social Security card"

Niether of those are acceptable forms of ID in CA. As far as dropping the family name some just use the initial of the family name when signing thier name and having it in full on ID. In my previous employment I have many customers that would come up from Mexico each week. I saw many ID's as well as collecting thier signatures. The ID the borrower had was fine. We ID according to state law. Follow the law when ID'ing and record it in your journal according to law and you have used reasonable reliance.

Reply by SSEmobile on 11/21/05 11:33am
Msg #77975

>Niether of those are acceptable forms of ID in CA.

As supporting evidence to help you make a decision whether to honor the picture ID they can be used. Just don't get lured into admonishing them in the journel! :o]

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 11/21/05 11:51am
Msg #77982

The law states:
(4) Reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following

_______________________

No where does the law state that it is ok to use a compilation of different unacceptable forms of ID as a basis to ID someone. The reasonable reliance is on one acceptable form of ID. Why would you rely on something that is unacceptable? How would you explain that in court in the event of a fraud case. "Your honor I checked his ss card and marraige licence" Next question from the attorney to you "are those acceptable forms of ID according to CA state notorial law?". Your reply "No".

I would rather protect myself by following the law as it is written and have my answer be "your honor I checked his ID and recorded it in my journal as it met the Ca state notorial law requirements". That may be anal, but I will not risk my commission or other repercutions for an improper proceedure when ID'ing someone.

Reply by janCA on 11/21/05 10:41am
Msg #77945

How did he sign on his license? Was it John Garcia Sanchez or John Garcia? I've seen this happen many times over.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/21/05 10:41am
Msg #77946

Actually, I probably would not have a problem with that at all. In many Spanish speaking countries (I don't know about all) the naming conventions are different and I would expect that in your example (for someone born in a hispanic country), the documents would read John Garcia. Garcia would be the family name and his kids' last name. His wife would likely be Maria de Garcia Gonzalez, (Gonzalez being her father's family name.)

In other words, in Spain, Mexico & who knows where else, the father's family name comes first, followed by the mother's family name, Sanchez in your example. (BTW, I assume these aren't the actual names?!) hth

Reply by Calnotary on 11/21/05 10:49am
Msg #77948

Of course is sufficient ID; I had other that the lender and SS and TC wanted me to notarized
a set of docs a the other way around, her name on docs were Mary Jane Doe and on her ID was
Mary Doe. I refused and they were upset. But in your case your fine.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 11/21/05 1:05pm
Msg #78002

this ID issue is confusing to me. I don't see the validity of docs in one name (John Garcia) and ID in another being the "same" as most of you seem to see it. Just because Garcia is a surname and Sanchez is a surname, you think its OK to drop it off the ID, to match the loan docs? Wouldn't his last name be Sanchez- according to the ID? I would like to know how he signed the ID.
I don't know that I would be comfortable assuming anything about someone I do not personally know, even if it's commonly known that both surnames are used as suggested.

How would you handle it if his name on the ID is Juan Sanchez, but his signature on the ID is clearly John Sanchez, and the docs are in John Sanchez, would this be OK too?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/21/05 2:53pm
Msg #78026

I think you may be missing the issue or trying to make it more difficult than it is. Simply put, if the name on the document is contained within the name on the acceptable ID, then you have a positive match. Juan does not equate to John for these purposes. However John Garcia does match an ID that says John Garcia Sancez or John Garcia Rivera or John Garcia Anyname. It is up to the lender and/or title company to provide the signer's name. As long as we follow our guidelines and perform our jobs within the scope of the law, then we have done all we can do.

It's the same as if the borrower's name is John Public, but his ID has John Q. Public. Would you accept that? What if his ID said John S. Public or John Anyname Public? These would all pass the name match test (name on document is fully contained with the name as shown on the ID).

Of course, had the name on the documents shown John Public, but the name on the ID showed Juan Public, then there is no positive match and further investigation is needed to provide reasonable assurance that the person is who they say they are.

Also the match is made from the name as PRINTED on the documents with the name as PRINTED on the ID. Not how they sign the ID or the documents, though it is a good indication of how they really use their name in the real world. From the lenders/title company viewpoint, the signature is the important aspect. But from a notary viewpoint, we are not handwriting experts and therefore must rely on the printed names being a match. Signatures should be similar enough that any reasonable person would accept the signature to be that of the person shown on the ID.