Posted by Stephanie Wilson on 11/11/05 1:10pm
Msg #75925

Can everybody come to some agreement on RTC?

I get a message from LSI today saying a lot of their Notary's are making mistakes with the date on the RTC. It needs to be filled in for THREE working days. For them this includes Saturdays. Now call any company on a Saturday and good luck getting an answer. Maybe at a cell phone, but Saturday is NOT a business working day. Some companies have recognized this after being sued and no longer include Saturday in the RTC as a business day. Now legally where does that put me, when they want me to fill it in or line through it. I know for a fact they are NOT open on Saturday, i.e., not a business day.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/11/05 1:12pm
Msg #75927

In the 5 years I have been doing this, Saturday has always been included as a business day.
There used to be one company (since one out of business) that did not include Saturday as a business day.
If in doubt - use a rescssion calendar.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/12/05 8:04am
Msg #76089

Sylvia, they're still in business under a new name and still don't count Saturdays.

Reply by Anon1 on 11/11/05 1:13pm
Msg #75928

Saturday in most lenders minds is a business day because banks are open.

Reply by eXpedN_TX on 11/11/05 1:38pm
Msg #75935

I always count in Saturday's...it's a business day for me, banks, etc., and never count Sunday's or holidays. The rescission caledar that notrot puts out under "The Library" tab (above) works great!!! -Melissa

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/11/05 1:36pm
Msg #75934

Everyone has! Get a rescission calendar, nice one here.

Check the library here and get one for free. Everyone is in agreement on what are businesws days and have been in agreement for centuries. It doesn't matter on what days companies are open. There is a standard definition.

Reply by Giselle_CA on 11/11/05 1:38pm
Msg #75936

Yes, try using a rescission calendar. Saturday is counted for RTC.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/11/05 3:19pm
Msg #75950

It makes no difference what you or anyone else thinks is a business day. Title 12 (Reg Z) of the US Code specifies what days are counted and what days are not counted as days for rescission. And, according the Title 12, only federal holidays and Sunday are not counted as days for rescission. The expiration of the right of rescission, as defined by Reg Z, is three business days following the date of notification (signing, receipt of disclosures). A business day is defined as every day except the federal holidays (and not the "observed" days, but the actual date of the holiday) and Sundays. A lender has the right to extend the expiration past the three days required by federal code.

So, everybody is in agreement on RTC, at least as to the minimum allowed. It is in black and white.

Reply by Joshua Basil on 11/11/05 4:23pm
Msg #75972

I am an office supervisor for a Nation-Wide signing service as well as have completed over 200 loans, If a bank is open then they day count's for recision. Saterday even though only half days the banks are open and therefore count. Some recisions have problems when it comes to holliday's any federal holliday (ie: Today Veterens day) in which the banks are closed you will not count for a Recision.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/11/05 5:24pm
Msg #75990

Joshua, it's just not that simple. Reg Z is very explicit. It doesn't make any difference if the bank is open or not. This year, for example, Christmas falls on Sunday, 12/25. Banks will either be closed on Friday or more than likely on the following Monday. Also, all government offices will be closed on Monday, 12/26 as the "observed" Christmas Day. But, Monday, 12/26 DOES COUNT as a day of rescission. (As does Friday, 12/23 and Saturday, 12/24.)

Just as a note, not all banks have Saturday hours. So we can't go by that. Also, what about 'correspondent lenders' and brokers. Even though they aren't servicing the loan, they are the ones establishing the loan. They aren't banks nor financial institutions, and often don't even have office hours on Saturday.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 11/11/05 4:43pm
Msg #75979

My theory as to why Saturday counts per regulations

If the bwr decides to rescind they must notify lender in
writing by end of period
Sat has mail.
Recisssion can be postmarkded by Sat as
proof that it was sent
(am aware that it may may not be possible to
mail at Midnignt)
Sunday and holidays do not have mai pick up
and recisssion notice can not be postmarked on that date
I am aware that there are other methods available for
delivery ( Fax ,FEDEX etc), but everyone has access to US Mail Mon-Sat
Paul is correct (as usual and even cites authority, )
as to the "observed Holiday" ( will happen this year on
Monday after Xmas and New Year) but not logical due to Post Office
being closed on those days. I am SHOCKED that some Federal
Regualations are not logical) It is possible that whoever wrote regs
did not think it all the way through, but a Reg is a Reg)
Many loan pkgs have a recission calender included. If so that should be
followed to CYA
I did a signing this week where the last date to cancel was 11-11-05
I was able to reach TC and they approved my changing, but if it was
a late closing and I could not reach anyone, I would have changed anyway.
When in doubt AND IF YOU CAN NOT REACH someone in authority
I would err by giving bwr too much time to cancel as appposed to
too little time. Too much only delays funding, too little may void the loan
or give the bwr to option to void after funding. Way complicated
situation if this happens.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/11/05 5:30pm
Msg #75994

Re: My theory as to why Saturday counts per regulations

I agree with you Bob, up until you said:

>>> I did a signing this week where the last date to cancel was 11-11-05 I was able to reach TC and they approved my changing, but if it was a late closing and I could not reach anyone, I would have changed anyway. <<<

The expiration is guaranteed by federal statute to be three business days after the final of three events. Even knowing the date to be incorrect on the notice, had I not been able to contact the lender, title company or SS (if hired by one), to authorize the change, I would not change it. The borrower would still have until mid-night the 12th to cancel, as per regulation.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/11/05 10:21pm
Msg #76060

Whether the business is open or not does not matter!

Assume your loan came our of New Orlean or Dallas during the recent hurricanes, I actually had this happen. Some business were closed for several days. What matters is the borrower can date, post and cancel or use some other means(fax, telegram etc.)

PAW_FL is right the sundays and holidays are set. Even then if one of those other events has not occurred, even the date in the expiry date in the recession agreement can be challenged.

As several others have suggested, use a recession calendar. Buy a plastic slip cover and keep in that or have it laminated.

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/13/05 11:46pm
Msg #76310

Re: My theory as to why Saturday counts per regulations

Bob,
Last time I checked you do not have the authority to "give the borrower a longer recission period".