Posted by Rick_NY on 11/7/05 4:23pm
Msg #74882

Debt Collection Strategy

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to suggest (with the full intent to follow through) that if a title company owing you money has a pattern of delinquent or "no pay" status with the notary community (heck, even if it's just the community of YOU), that your next move, in addition to appropriate collection activity, is to file a complaint or report about said company with the appropriate state's title insurance agency association and/or state insurance department, if the matter is not cleared up? And what about informing the title insurance carriers themselves?

We know (sometimes too late) through this board who the bad payers are. I'm not sure how much these companies care about complaints to the Better Business Bureau. This could really hit them where it hurts. This applies, perhaps, more to the TC's than the SS's, of course.

If these comapnies are dealing unscrupulously with us, is it not far-fetched to think that they play fast and loose with underwriting rules in order to write a policy?

Your thoughts are invited.

Reply by level5CA on 11/7/05 4:44pm
Msg #74885

I whole-heartedly agree with keeping the SS/SAs in check, however, my understanding is that SS/SAs aren't "governed" by anybody. Atleast I could not find any information whether a SS/SA is put through any type of "background or licensing" requirements. Am I wrong to think that anyone with the savy to start a webpage, buy a printer, start a FedEx account can become a SS/SA? I would definately start by-passing the SS/SAs and demand payment from the Title Company so they have an idea how they are being portrayed to the Notary community since they are being "thrown under the bus" a lot by the SS/SA with "the TC is not going to pay since it didn't fund", "the TC said you messed up", etc. I try to cover myself with e-mails, faxes and other written agreements for payment, however, I have had to write some nasty e-mails to get payment. Those nasty e-mails explain the problem and re-iterrate the verbal/written contract for service which does not include any wording on funding since my job is only to go to the signers and have them sign. It's not my problem it doesn't fund. Anyway, I don't want to go off on tangents. Just my point of view.

Reply by Rick_NY on 11/7/05 5:24pm
Msg #74889

Level5CA, I share your frustration. However, I did state in my message that this approach is likely to be more appropriate for a bad-paying title company, of which there are, thankfully, only a few. You are correct in believing that SS/SA's are not regulated in the same manner as the TC's.

That being said, I would think that most reputable TC's would be disturbed to learn that any SS they were using to get their loans closed was stiffing the notaries.

FYI, I am dealing with a TC right now which owes me thousands of dollars and is crying poverty. I am at my wits end over this. (And I didn't have very far to go.)

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 7:09pm
Msg #74901

I too share your frustration. I have spent over $3000 in legal fees to get $5000 (in legitimate debt) that a TC owes. This has been going on for over a year and a half. I have been to court, mediation, phone conversations....this TC is pretty much crying poverty too..His last offer was to pay me $5200 over a 2 year period (like$200 and something per month)...Of course we did not accept. Why should I have to wait 2 years to collect money that was already collected on the HUD? Go figure.

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/7/05 7:41pm
Msg #74905

Sherry,
The way to solve that is have the TC pay your directly from the HUD. That is how I am paid by all the TC's I work with. If they fail to pay from the HUD then there will be RESPA problems and most TC's try to avoid that at all costs.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 11/7/05 7:52pm
Msg #74909

In our closing confirmation that goes to the TC, we state that our fee needs to be on the HUD BUT that does not always happen.

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/7/05 6:25pm
Msg #74892

Were you listed on the HUD?

I ask because being listed on the HUD opens other avenues for collection strategies.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 11/7/05 9:14pm
Msg #74918

RESPA Violation

You would need an attorneys opinion (Hugh?) but I believe that a TC that does not pay out to parties listed in the HUD is in violation of RESPA (truth in lending) you are right, you may have to be listed individually. I have already written to my State representatives about this " Fudging" of RESPA rules. There is always a loop hole it seems. I see "closing fees" which is pretty vague. The borrowers think I am getting all that!

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/7/05 9:25pm
Msg #74919

Re: RESPA Violation

You really don't have to go that far. The original post/poster was on the right track.


JMO & FWIW

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/7/05 10:22pm
Msg #74932

You are heading in the right direction.

I just collected from a Title Company in Florida who had a $175 invoice o/s to me since August 10. Only 60 days at the time I began collection but the problems I saw as tell-tale signs and way things came together...

1) Sub-prime lender raking in a ton of fees on the Hud - Florida Heloc / cash out

2) It was 5 miles away. I quoted less than $175. They upped it to $175 and promised to pay w/i 18 days.

3) Invoiced upon completion - returned docs - they used DHL

4) 18 days came and went. Sent reminders they were ignored.

5) Faxed / emailed - ignored until I faxed in huge letters that I the lender would be contacted. Then, I was told check's in the mail - I waited.

6) Called again. They said: Check was cashed, will send proof.

7) Faxed / emailed again that I would do small claims petition/subpoena all necessary witnesses. I was ignored. Faxed/emailed again that I would contact lender, association, state agencies. Called and assured a check would come that week. Then, got a snide email from the "boss" saying he had seen the faxes and I needed to call him if I wanted a check. Wrote him back and said how about you call me. I have done my part. Whether or not I call you so you can be impolite in a phone call to me on my dime has nothing to do with you paying your bills. Heard nothing.

8) I wrote the Florida Land Title Association to inquire on what agencies to contact - no contact info for offender included. BCC to offender. Received note via email that check was coming. FLTA responded with query on WHO the offender was and a list of agencies to contact. Forwarded to Offender.

9) Note rec'd from Offender that he'd get right on it and get some info to me regarding the check they had sent out. I wrote that I'd look forward to seeing that no later than five days from then.

Nothing. I wrote a history up and sent to lender, mortgage processor, copy to offender. This one had names in it. Wrote back to FLTA with info on the offender. CC'd all of this to Offender. Mort Proc wrote back a snippy note to take her off the list of people who got the info on this problem. Wrote her back and said, I sure will. I will copy this to your CEO under copy of this email. When you guys come to Texas Sm Claims court and/or get a note from the agencies who handle this serious complaint, just remember that you were made aware that one of your title companies is not handling funds correctly. I was on the HUD. Thought you might want to pass it along to someone who could help them see the importance of payment. Perhaps your indifference is very telling about your own business practices. Sent a copy to Offender.

10) Offender's people called w/i two days had check via overnight.

11) Offender emailed to request my acknowledgment that the bill had been paid.


=======
THIS IS ONLY MY WAY - NOT GIVING ADVICE.

Consider all realtor associations, all title company associations, all mortgage banker associations and agencies as well. Put their reputation on the line as long as you can prove what you say.

Where an SS is not paying, notify lender and title company via CMRRR# if necessary. Avoid phone calls, or when there is one, write back to that person to confirm what all was said in the call. Try to keep everything in writing. When they write back and say this is not my problem. Say you are sorry to hear that they knowingly accept liability for the SS's unethical practices. If you guys use an SS who may cause the borrower legal entanglement in the way of testimony as to what they know about the transaction in any type of court hearing or agency investigation that's probably not going to be popular with the attorney general's consumer division, the mort banker's association, the land title associaion, etc.

If you make enough credible and logical arguments, ultimately someone will care and push for a change or push to get their nose clean.

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/7/05 11:13pm
Msg #74950

Brenda,
That is indeed the way it is done.

Last one I had I called the Title Company(the underwriter, not the mom & pop company that contracted me) and informed them that one of their agents failed to pay me from the HUD and were now not responding to phone messages. I let them know they had 48hrs before I reported this to the Dept of Financial Institutions and the RESPA compliance officer for the area.

I had a check overnighted to me for early morning delivery and a call from the title company owner with his apology for the error.
When you are listed on the HUD there is more recourse than collection letters and small claims court.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/7/05 11:47pm
Msg #74958

Re: Debt Collection Strategy-Paul...

This is probably a question I should know the answer to but I am drawing a blank. How does one find out (once the docs are no longer in hand) who the underwriter is?

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/8/05 1:50am
Msg #74964

Re: Debt Collection Strategy-Paul...

Simple, call the title companies general number and ask who underwites their title policies.

I always make a note as to who the underwriter is for all my closings.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/8/05 5:12am
Msg #74969

Re: Debt Collection Strategy-Paul...

**I always make a note as to who the underwriter is for all my closings.**

As will I in the future.

Thanks, Paul.

BrendaTx

Reply by Rick_NY on 11/8/05 10:34am
Msg #75024

Thank you [Re: Debt Collection Strategy]

Thank you all for the helpful information. I have also used the web site of the American Land Title Association (ALTA) to determine that the offending company is a member, so the New York branch of ALTA will also be on my "Cc" list.

I will keep you apprised of my progress.