Posted by Anne/IL on 11/11/05 9:39am
Msg #75855

How deep are we supposed to get into BO's business???....

I got a call from SS last night for a signing today. Came to found out that BO is the same BO that I did 2 weeks ago but different lender. It was a purchase in another state so BO couldn't have cancelled and got another lender. I'm worried that something might be wrong because BO is VERY elderly. I haven't received the docs yet so I'm not sure it's about the same property or if this is (already) a refinance or what?

This is the first situation like this that I'm running into and I need some advice on how to handle it? Just go and sign and forget it or look and maybe warn about something being possibly fishy?

Thanks in advance....

Reply by Art_MD on 11/11/05 9:43am
Msg #75856

It is our duty and responsibility to be sure that whoever is signing a document we are going to notarize, understands what he/she is signing. If you have any doubt, don't notarize.

Warning signs to look for .....is there a relative there pushing the person to sign? Is that person saying things like "sign it, it all OK"?

You sure as heck don't want to be caught up in a fraud or lawsuit when you can avoid it.

JMHO - not legal advice.


Art

Reply by Beth/MD on 11/11/05 10:00am
Msg #75859

I once found myself at a signing with a couple who didn't seem to understand the whole process they were involved in. They weren't an older couple but just didn't seem to be mentally capable of understanding the process involved. Little things made me leary before I even got to the borrower's home. One example was 21 pages of liabilities! Yes, 21 pages. Just about everything from page 3 on was a -0- balance, but if these people could get a credit card issued, they did. Other things during the signing made me realize they just didn't seem to grasp the situation so I made up an excuse to call the SS and told them that I didn't think this was something I wanted to get into. You know, that SS told me I was just there to notarize and not to determine someone's mental status or understanding of what they're signing. NO, I didn't close it and NO I didn't get paid, BUT I slept better that night. I no longer work with that SS but that's okay with me.

Reply by PJM/MI on 11/11/05 10:10am
Msg #75864

It is my understanding that we are to make sure the signers know exactly what they are signing. I won't close for someone if they don't understand the docs and what they are getting themselves into.
My oldest bo to date was 86 yrs "young". He knew exactly what he was doing. I kept asking him, "do you understand that you taking out a 30 yr loan on your property?" He finally told me, "Honey, I know exactly what I'm doin', so you don't need to ask me again".

Reply by Anonymous on 11/11/05 10:15am
Msg #75865

Re: How deep are we supposed to get into BO's business???...

My thing is why couldn't she cancel the first loan? when you did the first closing were there RTC? I would be careful and look over the docs when you get them.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/11/05 12:00pm
Msg #75905

Re: How deep are we supposed to get into BO's business???...

I am confused. What are you as a notary 'looking over' on the docs when you get them?

Reply by Anonymous on 11/11/05 1:19pm
Msg #75929

Re: How deep are we supposed to get into BO's business???...

Gee I thought in line work you were suppose to look at the docs make sure you have what you need.

Reply by Tina_MA on 11/11/05 10:36am
Msg #75874

If I am not sure whether or not someone is aware of what's going on, Attorney Bolton requires me to ask certain questions of borrowers to see if they are alert and aware of the situation.

1. Who is the current president of the US?

2. What day of the week is it and the date? If they are in some type of facility, most will not know the day or date because every day is like the next and they all blur together. In that instance, the question is: What season is it?

3. Then I ask them about a recent current event. It can be news or sports related. Last time I was in a nursing home, the gentleman and I spoke at length about the Red Sox. I'm not a big sports fan, however, I do watch the news nightly, and I usually remember how they did at their last game. For a woman that was in another nursing home, I spoke to her about politics.

Part of your job as a Notary is to make certain that people are aware of what it is they are signing -- this goes to back signing of one's *free act and deed*. If the person is NOT AWARE, they are NOT signing of their own free act and deed.

Also, when signing docs with elderly borrowers, Attorney Bolton insists that I not allow anyone else in the room except for the signers and their LO, if present. This makes it easier to determine if the borrower is signing because they want to, not because their adult child or significant other/friend wants them to.

Reply by Anne/IL on 11/11/05 11:40am
Msg #75897

UPDATE....

I called BO and talked to BO's child (who is also elderly) and she confirmed that BO was buying another house for one of the grandchildren. The first one was for one of the children.

As I mentionned before, I met her before and for her age (mid nineties) she's as sharp as a button and she understood exactly what she was signing. I guess she's just that kind of mom/grandma who wants to give before she passes away.

What amaze me the most I guess is that lenders are willing to give people this elderly 30 year mortgages....

Reply by sue_pa on 11/11/05 11:59am
Msg #75904

Re: UPDATE....

they give them the mortgages for 30 years because in 30 years the real estate securing the loan will still be there. when the borrower passes away (and we assume your mid-90s lady will) the lender gets their $$$

Reply by Anonymous on 11/11/05 12:06pm
Msg #75910

Re: UPDATE....

It is also against the law to discriminate against giving mortgages to seniors.

Reply by SLP_VA on 11/11/05 12:16pm
Msg #75912

Re: UPDATE....

.............they give them the mortgages for 30 years because in 30 years the real estate securing the loan will still be there. when the borrower passes away (and we assume your mid-90s lady will) the lender gets their $$$.......................

Actually, that's not always the case...I previously worked for a large mortgage company for 15 years...I've seen it all (worked in the foreclosure dept and REO department as a Closing Coordinator). Most of the time if an elderly person passed away and there was no one else on the loan and family members were not able to pay or chose not to keep up the mortgage payment, the house would go to foreclosure. In alot of cases, at the foreclosure sale, noone is willing to bid up to the amount lender wants for the property and it goes back to the lender.
At that point, it becomes an REO property and is resold up to the fair market value. Alot of the times, the fair market value is not what is owed on the loan, so the bank takes a "loss". Sometimes those losses are huge!