Posted by Nate_MN on 11/15/05 10:55pm
Msg #76853

New Policy regarding $50 companies, please give feedback

Now I will start by saying I have not done a $50 closing in years and have actually not even been asked to do one in some time. I was thinking of a possible use for them, and instituting a new policy pertaining to them.

I have some real good companies I work for, and like all other Signing Agents I hate telling them no. And, obviously we all hate it when we lose out on business from a good company working for a low ball company. Why not take the low ball assignments (assuming it's overnight docs and inside a 10 mile radius) and if something better comes up take it, and try to reschedule the lower paying assignment for a different time, and if it does not work for the borrower, call the Signing Service and give it back. If the Signing Service gets upset at you, the worst they can do is stop calling, and that might not be such a bad thing.

I am curious what others think of this policy. I have never done this to a company, but was thinking of making it my new policy regarding second tier companies that I work for, so not just $50 companies, but any company that I would not consider a tier one company. Let me know what you think.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/15/05 11:01pm
Msg #76854

I think it is very unprofessional! If you accept a signing then you should follow through.
many a time we accept signings only to have something better come along that we have to turn down. That is just the way things work.

Reply by DonR_NYC on 11/16/05 12:04am
Msg #76858

I fully agree with Sylvia. You accepted an assignment in good faith and agrred to a verbal contract. To break it is unethical and will give you a reputation that you will not want.

Remember, signing service employees do move from one company to another. Your name will get out there, but not in the manner you desire.

Reply by LilyMD on 11/16/05 6:55am
Msg #76864

How very unprofessional it is to even consider this. This is no better than those companies that notary shop for a cheaper fee. Yes, if you accept the appointment then you should follow through.

Reply by hcampersFL on 11/16/05 7:13am
Msg #76869

I understand that you want to try and help all these people who are taking these jobs. Let them run thier own business. They will figure it out.
Some, like me have cut thier teeth on these jobs and then moved on to bigger and better. If people don't want to work for $50. then don't take the job.
Someone will take it and like Brenda/Tx says it frees you up to accept other more lucrative signings.
JMO
B.

Reply by taxpro on 11/16/05 2:02pm
Msg #76990

Sylvia is right, as always, that this is unprofessional behaviour and the word will get out about it. But, I have had a few experiences with unprofessional signing services doing the same thing to me. They call me and ask me if I'll do a signing for $45 or $50, I say no, my minimum fee is $75, plus $25 if e-docs. They say, I'll see if I can get your fee approved and call you back. Usually, I never hear from them again, and don't expect to, which is fine. BUT, I had a few that have called back and said, "I got your fee approved!!! Can you do the signing?" I say ok, fine. Then, they call back shortly before the appointment time and say the signing was cancelled. I call the borrower to make sure he knows I won't be coming, and he says, "Yes, they called me and told me they were sending a different notary." So, it looks like after they "gave" me the signing with my "approved" fee, they continued calling around until they found someone to do it cheaper. Why don't they just be honest and up front, and say "We cannot pay that amount." Obviously, it's because they don't care about ethics and professionalism. They want to keep the higher priced notary "reserved" as a last resort, in case they can't find an el cheapo, then they just dump him. Now, that's not excusing what Anonymous wants to do, and I wouldn't do it to them just because they've done it to me. But, some of them don't deserve professional treatment.

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/16/05 7:33am
Msg #76871

Whoa!...

"try to reschedule the lower paying assignment for a different time, and if it does not work for the borrower, call the Signing Service and give it back".

I'm in this business to help and protect people's identities. A service I decided to provide by becoming a notary and taking an oath. Your statement tells you you could care less about the people you are servicing - the borrowers. That kind of policy, in my opinion, is highly unethical and goes against what we are.

If you don't want the $50. jobs, don't take them.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/16/05 7:42am
Msg #76873

This is a perfect example of why NotaryRotary allows an anonymous post.

I overbook everyday and to date have been able to get all of my signings completed. I've had some late nights because of it. 9-10pm signings. The lower paying ones and the late doc ones get rescheduled around the good ones that day.

This allows me to give top customer service to my good clients. And they know it. Those who pay well and send the docs on time. I'm amazed at how many TC's pay $150 gladly and then email the docs 2 hours after the set appointment time. The smart/experienced ones know we have other appointments scheduled. It also allows me to complete the assignment for the lower paying/less organized companies on days when business is slower. My standard fee to SS's is similar ie. $65 for overnight docs within 5 miles one way. No last minute fax/email docs sent to me and no faxbacks to them. Packages under 100 pages only. Edocs are an additional $30. My hope is that I will eventually create enough TC work that I'm able to turn down all SS offers. Or that eventually notaries will "get it" and work directly for the TC's thereby putting the SS's out of business all together.

I simply contact the borrower and tell them that I have to reschedule for a later time that day. I have never gotten a complaint from a SS for this procedure as 95% of the loans I process close. Rule number one: Never print or leave your house without calling the borrower and asking if the interest rate, loan amount, HUD and terms are correct. I've saved myself many waisted trips by doing this and I don't have to haggle with SS for a "didn't sign" fee or a printing fee for unsigned docs. You are a "business" in a very competitive field. I worked for a TC for 2 years and this is how they schedule things...why? Who knows! But, they constantly over schedule their closings and there are always more closings on the board then what will be completed that day. Go Figure.

Reply by LilyMD on 11/16/05 8:02am
Msg #76877

Anonymous, you say > "This allows me to give top customer service to my good clients."

Does this mean that only those you consider your "top clients" are worth good customer service? I'm glad I'm not one of your clients.

Reply by Nate_MN on 11/16/05 11:19am
Msg #76902

As I said I am on the fence about this policy. I thought about posting as anonymous, but then decided against it since I know there are some members of the forum who don't respond to anonymous and I am really interested in others opinions on this issue. I respect all opinions so far.

I don't really think it's unprofessional to consider a policy or a strategy for your business. You may have an idea and after research decide not to act on it because you question the professionalism of such a decision, but to take it under consideration isn't being unprofessional.

As for the loss of reputation, I see how that could be a problem. However as your reputation was getting bad with some companies, it would be getting good with others.

I suspect this occurs in this industry. It may not be a formal policy, but I assume anytime someone gets crunched, even by accident (ie printing difficulties, bad traffic, extra long closing, etc) they help existing good clients, before they help newer, low pay, or slow pay clients. When time becomes limitied, you have to allocate in the most productive way possible.

Really the biggest hang up for me is not the Signing Services, but the borrower. If their loan ends up not closing because their lender works with a second tier Signing Service they are innocent victims.

Would any of you feel differently about the policy if in order to give a closing back, it had to at least be 24 or maybe 48 hours prior to the closing?

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/16/05 11:30am
Msg #76910

"Would any of you feel differently about the policy if in order to give a closing back, it had to at least be 24 or maybe 48 hours prior to the closing?"

1. How do you know that you'll get a higher paying signing 24-48 hours out? That doesn't happen very often anyway.

2. I suppose it would be fair if 'you' let your companies look for notaries that do it for less, after you accept, and call and cancel 'you' out of a signing if they find one. How's that for a policy that works for both you and the company?

Reply by Nate_MN on 11/16/05 12:02pm
Msg #76919

I have never really kept track but I would say that 95% of the time I have 24 hours notice, and 75% of the time I have 48 hours notice. The reason being that I work primarily for a few local title companies. I have been doing this for a few years, and turned down lots of signings in that time so I rarely get calls from Signing Services. I am guessing I am way down on their lists, and as they lower fees and have to call more signing agents, I started to think about how I would handle their calls. Would I accept their closings, and turn down my regular clients if I was busy. Would I just give them to old I don't leave my house for less the $100 routine, or would I institute a policy like the one I have presented in this posting.

As for your second point, I would be totally fine with that arrangement. The way I see it, you can go up from $50 a lot further than you can go down from $50 as far as fees are concerned I think I would come out ahead.

Clearly, if you put this policy into action, everything would be totally fine if the Signing Service was aware of your policy. They would know that for $50 they are getting the best efforts level of service. The underhanded part of the whole deal is not telling them that this is your policy.

The thing that got me thinking about this, was when I had to ask a friend to cover a signing because I had a better offer. I ended up paying him an extra $35 (he had to travel 150 miles round trip) on top of the fee from the signing service, but it worked out in the end so that I made more money.

Reply by Nd_WA on 11/16/05 12:35pm
Msg #76938

I think having a policy is good for any business, it's a matter of acceptance to terms from your clients. On the other hand, ie. if you accepted a (set) 5:00PM assignment then postponed it b/c you later booked a higher fee assignment for the same time slot is unprofessional and not a good policy for your business.

The nature of this business is negotiation. If a company can not meet my fee, I simply say no can do and thank them for the call/offer.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/16/05 12:15pm
Msg #76926

>>> I don't really think it's unprofessional to consider a policy or a strategy for your business. <<<

Having a policy or strategy is not what some of us consider unprofessional. Actually, having a policy and strategy is very professional. The unprofessional aspect is what your policy IS, not that you have one. I too feel that accepting an assignment and then unilaterally changing the terms or reneging on the contract because 'you got a better deal', is what we consider unprofessional. Now, if you accept a contract that has the agreement that once you get a better deal, you'll cancel, then all well and good. But I don't think that will ever happen.

My feeling is that if you don't want the job, for whatever reason, you shouldn't have accepted it in the first place. But since you did accept it. then as a professional, you should honor your contractual arrangement.

And, you're right about not getting all the responses if you had posted this anonymously.

Reply by Tina_MA on 11/16/05 10:07am
Msg #76892

>>>Never print or leave your house without calling the borrower and asking if the interest rate, loan amount, HUD and terms are correct. I've saved myself many waisted trips by doing this and I don't have to haggle with SS for a "didn't sign" fee or a printing fee for unsigned docs. <<<

I started doing this years ago after not being paid for a no-sign with e-docs. All told, I spent over an hour printing the 2 HUGE sets of docs, 3 hours driving, and almost 2 hours at the borrowers' home. I also had to put up with some major verbal abuse because I was the "available" person in front of them. Because of the late hour, the borrowers were never able to get a hold of the LO after leaving numerous messages.

If a borrower has access to email or a fax, I send them their HUD to review before I print docs or before the appointment. I instruct them to contact their LO if they have any issues or questions and get them resolved before I print docs or leave for the appointment.

This has saved many loans as it allows for the LO to go over issues with the borrower and/or corrected paperwork to be sent to me prior to leaving for the signing. This makes my signings go smoothly with no problems -- any and all problems have already been taken care of. For late night signings this is another plus, as it is much easier to get a hold of the LO earlier in the day, rather than later in the evening.

Quite frankly, I'm running a business and cannot afford to waste valuable time and resources on no-fee or half-fee's -- nor am I interested in being abused because someone is not happy with the situation.

Reply by Premier Signing Services on 11/16/05 6:37pm
Msg #77073

I agree about reviewing with the borrower prior to the trip being made. You have no idea how many no-pay borrower refused to sig situations this extra 5 minutes on the phone has saved me. Of course, I also inform the SS and Title companies when I accept that if the borrower cancels, refuses to sign, or does not show, then we still bill for the full amount. If they don't pay, we turn it over for collections and never work for them again. In this area, there are not many notaries and they really don't want to lose the ones they can count on to get the job done.