Posted by O/CNotary on 11/8/05 1:13pm
Msg #75081

Some of the docs have JR after the name, some dont. ID has

JR, so on the Notary Cert, do I put in "JR'? Is that considered capacity? I dont think so! BRW signed everything as JR, even the docs that didnt have it. He insisted that is the name he goes by and always has. Any advice, comments? Thx

Reply by ShirleyA on 11/8/05 1:55pm
Msg #75102

I had a situation like that a couple days ago. Some of the docs had Jr., some did not. SS said to have the BRW add Jr. after his name under the signature line when it was missing, initial it, then sign. Hope that helps.

Reply by Rick_NY on 11/8/05 2:16pm
Msg #75116

You may have a problem. Brace yourself for a re-closing.

How a person signs the mortgage and related docs usually depends on how the person's name is vested on the deed/title of the property. How they sign the note and credit-related docs depends on how they gave their name when the applied for credit. Usually the title companies and lenders do not want their documents altered without their authorization. There are often separate affidavits for name variations, eg. "John L. Smith is also known as John L. Smith, Jr."

Just because the borrower says that's the name he goes by, does not mean that is how his name was recorded in the public records.

In the future, call whoever gave you the assignment and confer with them, even [especially] if you are at the table. Many title companies will have written instructions to adjourn the closing if the borrower refuses to sign the way his name has been printed. Most doc packages have detailed instructions on how to deal with name variations and other issues.

These things I learned at Hard Knocks U. Good luck!

Reply by Kerrie Debney on 11/8/05 10:25pm
Msg #75208

Rick, you are not legally suppose to force a brwr to sign any way. If that brwr is insisting that he has always & only signed this way- he signed that way on all recorded public records. Why would he choose now to argue w/ signing a certain way if he had signed that way in the past?

I agree though that you should ALWAYS call your Lender contact. I would not take the LO's instructions as final rule. Make sure you are talking to someone that is involved in the legality; escrow officer or title

Reply by Rick_NY on 11/9/05 7:38am
Msg #75289

Message back to Kerrie [Re: Some of the docs have ...]

Kerrie, nowhere in my advice did I suggest anything even close to forcing the borrower to sign his/her name in any manner s/he finds objectionable. We are typically instructed to have them sign the way their names are printed on the mortgage and credit docs. These instructions come from the title company, not the loan officer. The borrowers are free to refuse to sign the way the docs are prepared and we are free to adjourn the closing for another day when the docs are prepared in a manner with which the borrower is comfortable, if that is even possible at all.

Let's roll back the tape. When someone buys property, it is generally the seller's attorney who prepares the deed. That attorney cares all of a rat's behind if he puts the name on the deed as the buyer wishes it to appear. Unless discrepancies are corrected at the time of the closing of sale, the deed will be recorded "John Doe" even if the borrower prefers "John L. Doe III." These errors pass unnoticed very frequently.

So if in the future John L. Doe III is how he applies for a home equity line or refi loan, the credit agreement and all disclosures will be listed that way, but on the mortgage he will still be plain ol' John Doe. The name affidavit will link John Doe and John L. Doe III as the same person. In New York, it is likely the clerk will reject a mortgage if it is signed differently from the deed. As a practical matter, lenders and t/c's prefer not to have to send the name affidavit along with the mortgage (it costs m-m-m-money to record them) and just have the mortgage signature reflect the deed vesting.

I always try to call the appropriate party from the table when these issues crop up. If I am instructed to permit a change, I do. If I can not reach anyone, nobody ever reduced my fee for following the written instructions, even if they are WRONG. I have never had to adjourn the closing for this reason. When I explain to the borrowers that the deed does not correspond with how they like to sign or use their name, they usually fall in line.

I was once burned when the mortgage showed the property was in Brooklyn [Kings County] but the property was actually in Queens County. I had the borrowers initial the stricken out changes on the appropriate page and the lender had the TC reduce my fee and have the HELOC re-signed. The stupid part was that the page could have been corrected internally because it did not actually have inits at the bottom or a signature. They even gave the re-sign to a different notary.

Go figure, but I won't get burned again.

Reply by Kerrie Debney on 11/8/05 10:19pm
Msg #75207

What did his signature look like on his DL? Did it have JR typed after his name? Did he sign his DL w/ JR? If the answer is yes to these, he should sign the docs w/ JR.

No matter what, you can not force the brwr to sign a certain way. That's what the AKA/Sig Aff is for. If you make him sign a certain way, it is not going to match the original title for recording & will look fraudualant

Reply by Kerrie Debney on 11/10/05 1:03am
Msg #75552

Rick, I don't mean litterally FORCING the brwr; it is known as that when it looks dif than the copy of ID or 1003 or whatever was previoiusly signed & recorded. I wasn't saying anything against you. I just have seen docs get turned down in CA at a few Lenders that I have worked at b/c the notary was trying to follow the instructions & insist to a brwr to sign the way it is on the docs. ESPECIALLY if they are dif on some of the sig lines. You can go either way to cover yourself w/ that one; you can follow the obvious written & specific instructions of the Lender or TC or you can have the codes that back you up by not having them sign to match the present docs, rather how they always sign. Just as long as you know which one is going to pass the test .

Alot of the signings that I do, I am in contact w/ the LO not the TC. I get alot of my signings through the direct Lender though. Maybe that makes it dif? I am ussually given a sign off sheet on top of the docs w/ the LO's cell # & about 7 times out of 10, I end up calling the NNA or a notary friend to give me the actual answer to things like this. Again, just my exp.

Really Rick, I wasn't accusing you of telling him to do anything unethical, k? thx for listening