Posted by Anonymous on 11/17/05 9:53am
Msg #77150

Title Co. and Fees

Just had a big title company ask me to come down on my base fee (which is reasonable). Told them no can do. They did in end meet fee, but, I think we are in for a long bumpy ride.

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 9:58am
Msg #77153

Re: Title Co/SS. and Fees-who determines these rates?

Please educate me on something..I know it will sound like a "stupid" question!

How are Signing Services or Title Companies determining that a certain zip code pays at a certain rate??????

I was told by one Signing services that where I live the rate is around $75-$85...while others say it is $50. How do they determine this rate...and what does zip codes/cities have to do with it.

Anyone who may know the answer to this...please speak up! <wink>

Advise,
Dee

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 10:11am
Msg #77156

DeeB...

check out the home page of this web site for the Notary Coverage Analysis Tool (CAT)

click and you'll see your zip codes and charges - all of mine are much lower than I charge, but I think they're there for a guidance tool.

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 10:14am
Msg #77158

Re: DeeB...

unfortunately....from what i found you have to be a premier member here to see/find this...what is the link to its actual website.

advise,
Dee

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 10:16am
Msg #77159

it was designed by NotRot for it's members...n/m

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 10:24am
Msg #77164

Re: DeeB...

ok take it back...i found it and did it..it did pop up..i'm sorry.

but now my next question...the CAT says that for my area the average rate is from $85-$90. Does this include edocs/borrower's copies, etc... or just the notary rate alone.

Advise.

dee

Reply by MB_AZ on 11/17/05 10:28am
Msg #77165

How do you get to the Notary Coverage Analysis Tool?

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 10:32am
Msg #77166

Re: How do you get to the Notary Coverage Analysis Tool?

Click on THE LIBRARY blue tab, then click on the Coverage Analysis Tool and then put in your estimated area....it will give you a report how you put in the info...make sure you answer to yes at the last question.

Reply by MB_AZ on 11/17/05 10:34am
Msg #77167

Found it - Thanks. n/m

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 10:35am
Msg #77169

Re: How do you get to the Notary Coverage Analysis Tool?

hmmmm...I can't get to it thru the library, only on the home page and before I login in and I think that's a sample for anyone visiting the site. starrrrange

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 10:36am
Msg #77170

duh...found it...need coffee....n/m

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 10:34am
Msg #77168

I'd guess base, but...

does not mean that's what you HAVE to charge, it's your business

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 10:41am
Msg #77171

Re: I'd guess base, but...

No i understand that...its just why r the SS's telling me "well the going rate in your area is....." when in reality it is not...especially those who want to pay the $50 notary fee.

however,I want to make sure that when they say the "going rate" for my area is $85...that is the notary rate, that does not include Edocs, borrower's copies, etc... (those would additional fees).

I'm' wondering when they quote me $75 that they are only paying $50 for notary and $25 for edocs as a one fee...(under the going rate anyhow).... does that make sense?

Reply by Jon_PA on 11/17/05 10:44am
Msg #77172

Fee structure

I thought those fees were based on the rates you put in your profile.

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 10:47am
Msg #77174

Re: Fee structure

AHA! If that's the case, I've given myself a a mighty fine raise over the year...lol
better change that if that's where it stems from...Thanks!

Reply by Jon_PA on 11/17/05 10:49am
Msg #77175

You are welcome! n/m

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 11:02am
Msg #77179

Re: Fee structure

So if its based off of our profiles then the most common rates for the area I live in due to other Notaries in this area is about $85-$105. which does NOT include edocs, borrowers copy, traveling, etc....

Just curious.... is that why many base their fees at $125-$150 and if so does that include other fees?

Advise,
Dee

Reply by Giselle_CA on 11/17/05 12:55pm
Msg #77216

Re: Fee structure

Yes, I think those fees are based on the rates you put in on your profile.
It helps you determine what you would charge for specific zip codes or
cities based on the fee you entered.

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 10:45am
Msg #77173

Re: I'd guess base, but...

***I'm' wondering when they quote me $75 that they are only paying $50 for notary and $25 for edocs as a one fee...(under the going rate anyhow).... ***

Yes, it appears that's what they are trying to do, so just tell them one of two things...

I didn't make up those rates, this is what my rates are or...

Yes that's my base, now add $35 for e-docs, more for piggyback and so on. Hope that helps

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 11:16am
Msg #77187

Ok..i was just at NNA...and per what they have there that the base fee of $50 is for NON CERTIFIED NOTARIES AGENTS ...not for certified (CNSA).

so these SS's really need to be reminded that if you are a CNSA (and they will know if they are going by NSA if you are certified or not) that you have the right to ask from anywhere between $65-85 or higher, not only cuz you are certified, but due to experience as well.

Now..if you are a notary but don't have your certification as a signing agents.... they can pay up to $65.

just a thought...and observation! (but hopefully made sense too)

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 11/17/05 11:59am
Msg #77203

I am a Notary...NOT certified...1st commissioned over 30 years ago....they can pay up to $65.., to someone else !!

Reply by Art_MD on 11/17/05 12:11pm
Msg #77204

Re: Title Co. and Fees certification

I think I'll go into Paint, Director or another program and make up some certificates. I can then certify people as exhaulted grand notary of the Illuminated college of notorial skills.

If I do it in 5 color offset print, it will be worth 2.3 times the NNA certificate.

Art

Reply by Bonnie_CO on 11/17/05 12:12pm
Msg #77205

With the cert and $1 U can buy a cup of coffee! LOL N/M

Reply by Art_MD on 11/17/05 12:46pm
Msg #77210

Re: With the cert and $1 U can buy a cup of coffee!

That's not a starbucks coffee....
Maybe a small at 7-11.

Art

Reply by Bonnie_CO on 11/17/05 2:25pm
Msg #77236

Re: With the cert and $1 U can buy a cup of coffee!

Yeah, or MAYBE at McDonalds! LOL!
I'd prefer Starbucks, White Chocolate Mocha with a touch of vanilla and nutmeg...mmmmm!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/17/05 12:40pm
Msg #77208

DeeB, the numbers you talked about are just guidelines. There really is no such thing as "the going rate" in any area, except what a certain company decides they want to pay. They can create a "going rate" at any level they choose for any type of SA or function in any area. Conversely, as independent contractors, we too, can determine our own rates. Certainly, there are factors that come into play including numbers of SAs in an area, cost of living, experience level, etc. Probably your best source for a guideline for TC fees is to look at the HUD on some pkgs you sign to get an idea of what title companies are paying SSs in your area. (It isn't always shown.)

Reply by DeeB/Fl on 11/17/05 12:53pm
Msg #77213

Thanks Janet...& everyone else...its becoming clearer to me the more I hear different opinions and I do understand see what most of you are saying and it does make alot more sense now.

I have found that the HUD either has it or it doesnt...so I don't alway depend on the HUD...but I have seen it where it was quite high and wondered why I was being paid pennies. But at times there is nothing. The one I did last night...they were charging the borrower for the emailing of doc's...it did not say "notary fees"...it listed as something else.

Anyhow...thanks for all ya "advise"! ;)

Dee

Reply by Stamper_WI on 11/17/05 2:45pm
Msg #77240

Closing costs

Does the costs for closing cited on the HUD include the cost of the work the inhouse closer ( the one that handles the doc's prior to and after the signing)? I worked as a realtor for many years and the cost of a TC closing for a cash deal (No loan involved) was way more than I get now.
On closings with loan doc's or cash, they do what we do plus much more. In addition they record the doc's at the Reg of deeds, send out payouts for satifactions and had the trust acct that they write checks out of for those pay outs. So basically for a greater fee, they do more and assume greater Liability and are subject to audits etc..they handle the money down to the penny. So we cannot begrudge their higher fees. Or taking more of the HUD payout for closing.

Reply by SSEmobile on 11/17/05 3:26pm
Msg #77248

Pardon me, but I believe some of you have missed .......

....... what this tool is actually doing, either that of I have misunderstood what your assessment of what's happening is! :o]

I just did some "what if" checks on the tool as well, thanks for pointing it out.

I'm a relatively new member here, as well as a relatively new signing agent / notary. I have a few comments, maybe they will help, or maybe y'all can help me to better understand what's happening with the CAT tool.

I have a 150+ mile capability quoted on my web site, so I put in 75 miles in the one way "How far are you willing to travel?" slot.

From my zip code there are "338 ZIP codes within 75 miles of (my) location", so the resulting list of the first 200 zip codes starts with the first 109 zip codes at my BASE FEE, where my "Standard Drive:" data is only 10 miles. I am assuming this means that, my standard drive is indicating as long as the one way drive is under 10 miles NO MILEAGE FEE is being charged.

Here in San Diego, that 10 mile drive on the freeway, depending on what time you're doing it, could take and hour, easily. I have made a BASE fee quoted on my web site of $25, that includes driving miles up to about 7 or 8, meaning if you want me to travel to anywhere, including my neighborhood, the base fee is $25.

The way HAD I figured it was either that or add the $25 to my base fee to get something near what I felt was appropriate for the hourly wage earned during the time spent driving anywhere, doing the signing, and then driving back.

AM I being off base here? Do I not really understand shat the CAT tool is doing?

This forum has been a real help to a new person in the business in trying to get a grasp at that the correct fee structure should be, but the CAT tool isn't returning good values for me unless I use some values in base fee or cost per mile for travel that seem pretty well above what they should be.

Now, I'm a semi retired (quit working for other businesses and started my own) 51 year old manager and desk jockey by trade, well aquatinted with mortgage docs, and paper processing from way back, and now with the notary tasks including three signing agent certifications, so with the quality of work I am used to doing I figure my base fee for a single mortgage package should be at least $65 (based on my time alone, not to mention the number of signatures notarized at the California minimum), and as long as I'm there adding the work to complete a second package need be no more than $30 or so, and eDOCS technically cost way less
than 12 cents a page, add my time to watch the job, get it done right (and keep it clean an unmussed!), then package it ready for work or shipping and I'm hard pressed to charge more than $30 a package (and even less for the second in the job) ............ add travel fees of $25 minimum up to $102 for 150 miles round trip (not bad for $24 or $25 of gas) .........well, you see my point, the CAT tool still isn't giving me the right values per zip code unless I can state a $25 minimum in my profile for travel.

Well ........ this little diatribe went WAY longer than I intended, but I have one more question.

PA_Notary_II, Art_MD, Bonnie_CO, I know you are well experienced at 30 years for some of you, and I highly respect that experience and appreciate your posts here so full of the obvious wisdom that they are ........... BUT .......... what's your point of NOT being "certified"? Can't YOU pass the simple test I had to? I'll bet you could ........ but I guess as long as your longtime customers still call you for work I guess it just doesn't matter that you failed to keep up with the industry! :o]

As far as the slow down, you're talking about it in this thread ...... it's the rates charged by all those new notaries who have been feed the idea that they can make a BUNDLE (or at least a good living) being a signing agent notary, and the SS's are using them, finding that they can almost do the job correctly as long as they are supervised at some basic level (fax backs), and they can do without the really experienced folks and their high(er) prices for the most part.

THAT'S why it's slow, considering this is now the holiday season, and considering that the hot markets like San Diego are cooling off a little.

It WILL get better ......... but I will be trying to keep up with EVERYTHING I can to keep my price as high as it can be, and still generate new clients.

Talking it all over with y'all helps a good deal, and I do appreciate the talent, experience and helpful attitude that exist here. Thanks!

Reply by SSEmobile on 11/17/05 3:33pm
Msg #77250

I wish this forum let you edit posts.......

that should be "an hour", and "what the CAT tool" .............

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/17/05 4:36pm
Msg #77257

Re: I wish this forum let you edit posts.......

You can! lol...just re-read them before you post

Reply by SSEmobile on 11/18/05 12:59am
Msg #77316

Re: I wish this forum let you edit posts.......

Hey "Charm" .......... thanks for All THE HELP THERE!

Spend more time writing and less time editing, nobody's perfect.

Reply by SSEmobile on 11/18/05 1:04am
Msg #77317

Re: I wish this forum let you edit posts.......

Bear in mind I could have just replied "so much for the CHARM angle" ........

But that would just be needless sarcasm ....... you know?

:o]

Reply by Art_MD on 11/18/05 8:01am
Msg #77329

Re: Pardon me, but I believe some of you have missed .......

Most, if not all companies/organizations that offer "certification" don't offer it for MD. To do SA work in MD, it requires a Title Insurance Producer's License. That is what TC/SA's look for when they have a closing.

As for keeping up with the industry, to maintain my insurance license, I must take 16 CE credits every 2 years.
Some of the courses: Topics in Fraud and Bad Faith, Problems in title, Ethics and Sales conduct.

Art

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/19/05 10:09am
Msg #77644

Re: Pardon me, but I believe some of you have missed .......

The Signing Registry's certification is NOT state specific and is available to ALL notary signing agents. The course and subsequent test is based on the general signing agent practice and is not limited by state requirements. Therefore, even those in attorney-only states or in states that have other 'restrictions' can still be certified, but must always work within the state restrictions.

Reply by Mike_AZ on 11/17/05 9:04pm
Msg #77293

Good for you!

We seasoned notaries have to stand firm on our fees. You made the right choice.

Like you, I think we NSAs are going to be asked to take lower fees for more complicated work now that interest rates have started to float upwards. Yes, we are indeed in for a bumpy ride.

At the beginning of this year (January 2005) I made a decision:
No SSs. No matter how high their fees. Too slow. Too much risk if they will ever pay.
No Ameriquest or HFC. No IREP.
Yes - Lenders and Title Companies.
$125 base fee for 8 miles one way, overnight docs.
eDoc fee of $25.

Yesterday I compared my 2005 earnings (year to date) with 2004 total earnings. Here's what Quicken showed.
*Total income increased by $2000
*Gas expense went down by $500 (even in 2005's crazy gas prices)
*Number of signings went down. This means I made more money with fewer signings

Set your fees and stick to em!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 11/17/05 11:06pm
Msg #77307

Re: Good for you!

So, you are implying that because interest rates are going up the job gets easier or there is less to do? <j/k> My fees are NOT going down, I'm holding steady. I no longer have the fuel surcharge on my invoices where travel is over 50 miles, now that fuel prices are down considerably.