Posted by Janel Nichols on 11/14/05 10:18am
Msg #76337

Wow! The hits just keep on coming!!

I got a call from a signing company last thursday for last Friday. They sent over the confirmation. This confirmation included edocs: $65. Refi. 155 pages plus faxed docs x 2! of course! I just about fell off my chair. I was driving 42 one way. I am in a rural area so it is not unusual to drive at least 35-75 one way. So I returned an email to the scheduler, I said this is not enough. No repsonse! Finally two hours before the appointment I finally get someone and they approve my fee but I get told that I am going to be put on their "Emergency Only" list because I am so expensive!! I even met them inbetween like an idiot, because this month is so slow!!! like last month! I only charged them $95!! They told me they can no longer go over their fees, they pay $50 for overnight and $65 for edocs. My base fee is higher than that with time and travel!!! Can I ask the stupid question of: WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON WITH THESE SIGNING COMPANIES, TITLE COMPANIES ETC....???? WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN ARE THEY LOW BALLING? I KNOW I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE!!! Really, the thought of volume in a rural area would in the long run be the kiss of death, because of overhead costs. I just don't get it?

Reply by Anonymous on 11/14/05 10:27am
Msg #76339

SO MANY OF THE CLOSERS ARE ACCEPTING FEES LIKE THAT. THEY ARE ACCEPTING THE LOWBALL FEES. IT MAKES IT ROUGH FOR THE REST OF US.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/14/05 10:46am
Msg #76348

I wonder if signing services have a internet posting board where they encourage all signing services to only pay $50, and then blast any signing service that pays over $100.

Just like we are businesses, so are signing services. They are going to try to pay less, and that may or may not mean they get a lower quality signing agent. Paying $50 for closings may boost their profits dramatically, or it may cause them to lose clients and they will actually have a decrease in profits. It's just the way it's going to be.

The other thing I was wondering about. If someone was financially set up, so that they could handle a few years of $50 dollar closings, would it be to their benefit to accept low fee closings, wait tell the number of signing agents decrease, then start raising fees. In the end over a 5 year period it may all equal out.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/14/05 11:31am
Msg #76358

Economics 101, what the market will bear...

and the ss's know that the market will bear these fees and that there is a glut of newbies accepting these fees. Possibly even forcing some veterens to accept it. I don't think they care about quality, they figure they will just babysit more instead. We know ss's are getting the same fee or more from the title cos. as before, but because business has decreased for everyone they have to make a profit by squeezing us. I will continue to refuse these and go on to plan B in my life if it continues.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/14/05 12:34pm
Msg #76390

Anonymous - Ho-Mart

**The other thing I was wondering about. If someone was financially set up, so that they could handle a few years of $50 dollar closings, would it be to their benefit to accept low fee closings, wait tell the number of signing agents decrease, then start raising fees. In the end over a 5 year period it may all equal out**

You make a very good point and one that sounds interesting to pursue in theory, but I personally feel it's not what most savvy business people would do to get a foothold...nor would people who have truly got knowledge of our industry and who understand more than just making the dollar. Why?

Per Month example

50 x $50 = $2500
-Getting MANY of calls from good, bad, and slow pay, fly by night companies.
-Accept a regular browbeating...be treated like you are being paid. You are the one placing a price on your services...why respect you.

vs

20 x $100 = $2500
-Getting SOME calls from better companies

-In spare time, take a part-time job or do other business and save your income from that until the other NSAs are jumping ship.

-When the end of your few years is over, do a lot of advertising and continue to work for an improving fee that actually profits you, and building a reputation with good title companies and lenders who are actually concerned about quality (and in certain niches, there are some) rather than lowballing your colleagues? Even if you don't hang out with notaries living nearby, this kind of behavior affects all notaries, IMHO.

Notaries who are caving to lower and lower fees are diminishing any professional pride in this career...to take this lowering fee scale is to help it slide down faster...and, I won't debate the profit margin of a $50 job but it's not the way to profit. (Yeah, so maybe it worked for Amazon...however, Amazon sells books and is not selling a service --big difference.)

I am glad you posted anonymously this time because I do not mean this personal and since you are anon I can be blunt.

When I see my peers with this mentality, I do not feel very good about my choice to be an NSA because there will be zero respect left for what we do in the near futgure. I have never seen a stranger slice of occupational logic than what I see in our business.

If you do not direct yourself and your business in a manner that implies you respect whjat you do, no one will respect what you do either.

A street 'ho on crack is desperate to turn a trick and get a buzz.

Is not the NSA who continues to seek more business by working for lower fees to get whatever it is they think that $0 can buy them just as desperate?


And, people reading this like it or not, low balling your fees is only increasing disrespect and propping up the old joke which comes from the growing mentality of Notary Ho-Mart.

Forget that nice little official sounding "NSA" handle and think in terms of " notary 'ho. "

Did that make anyone feel upset or angry?

It should...at whomever is continuing to insist you work for food and board AND be dam_ed grateful to get it before I slap you around bitck.

Also, you should be angry at the person who makes the choice to stay in that "life" and not seek ways to be a true business person where you have good feelings about your accomplishments at the end of the day.

I feel the heat off those flames! But, before you torch me, the truth is: YES, some SS's, not all SSs o have a sense of humor and they deal with their days by making light of things...they laugh while they dial a 'ho and I am not offended by that kind of humor at all...except more and more it is starting to hit closer to home.

I never signed up to be a notary 'ho...I came to this business pursuing a life as a sought-after notary call girl.

Not interested in having to think about how similar the traits are? I don't mind what ANYONE says about me as long as I am getting paid the call girl rates I believe I deserve for having 100% happy "clients" and for keeping the Madam's phone ringing for more jobs all the time.

I am being very realistic. I don't mind a little bit of humor at my expense, but if notaries keep this up:

>>> "Do __ for $50...$45...$25 best offer you gone get here Mister, you wanna ___???? Oh and Mister I will do __ too!" <<<

... there will be more abusive pimps before the industry is stable again. I am not interested in that kind of a career.

It's bad business to keep lowering your fees to play this game. Pretty soon your wig is all raggedy, you need to replace your fishnet hose...your spike heel is gone off your best pair of red pumps and all your spandex is stretched out...and you are so depressed that you don't care...life sucks...and as soon as the pimp can replace you...count on it. EVEN if you started out not NEEDING a better fee for turning loan packages, if you allow yourself to be abused it changes you...it brainwashes you into thinking that you aren't any better than that. All the investments or savings accounts in the world will not counteract a mood brought on by the knowledge that no one respects you in a certain situation and you have no one to blame but yourself.

By continuing to stay firm on a fee that yields a profit, I may find that I get no calls and I will then do whatever it is old notary call girls do when they just cannot compete with the Notary Crack 'Ho-Mart mentality.

But, to tell you the truth. unless I do get on crack, I doubt I can ever bring myself to work for the kind of outfit that is desperate enough to offer crack ho fees. What kind of john offers low-ball fees like that...a big 'ol self-gratifying selfish slimey gross thing who will use me and [snip = no need to be as graphic as it could be said] ... and this john was unwilling to pay me more than just enough to keep me fed and to have a little fix here and there so I will keep working as a 'ho.


But, that just my opinion. In answer to your question, I think I'd rather do less closings for more money and work less for a few years

Reply by Anonymous on 11/14/05 12:55pm
Msg #76402

Re: Anonymous - Ho-Mart-I can't stop laughing

I am afraid my plan B might have to be crack ho instead of a notary ho, might pay more by the ho.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/14/05 12:55pm
Msg #76403

Re: Anonymous - Ho-Mart

Wow, that's a long post. And I am not sure where you are feeling the heat from, I think you made some good points, and I certainly am not going to flame you. I was just wonder what might happen if a notary pursued that type of a strategic plan. I do however think things will slow down, and having your financial house in order will be very important with whatever your strategy is.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/14/05 1:00pm
Msg #76404

Brenda is feelin the heat from the crack, that's a joke son

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 11/14/05 2:00pm
Msg #76421

Re: Brenda, you amaze me

The only flames you are going to feel are from the newbies who were taken in by the NNA and promised riches -- but instead of riches, they are taking the lowballing signings because we all know "something is better than nothing."

Myself, I just wrote a demand letter to a TC, no less, that is refusing to acknowledge TWO print/shredding charges more than 60 days ago. E-mails, faxes, snail mail and phone messages go unanswered. Signings were for the same borrower -- the first appointment he advised me that he was unable to get a copy of his driver's license because he had the flu -- by golly darn, flu or no flu, he expected me to meet him. NOT. Signing was rescheduled for the next week. TC calls for the signing at 4:15. I tell them I have a signing before that and it will probably be 4:30 or so -- ok, call the borrower and let them know. I stupidly print and copy re-drawn docs. Borrower goes balistic and can't be 15 minutes flexible with his time.

Escrow officer calls and chews my butt out because "how dare I change signing times to suit me." TC calls and acts ignorant about knowing I had signing before this one and would have to drive 80 miles to arrogant Borrower -- they would just have to find someone else to do the signing. EXCUSE ME -- that is what I've been trying to get through to you !!!

I'll probably still never see any money for my duplicate printing/shredding charges -- but, now it's the principle. This morning, my time, my paper, and my toner, but the loan docs were printed again and tomorrow morning TC will receive TWO UPS overnight packages with my invoice and LATE FEE charge. If they don't want to pay me, then they can pay UPS. Who knows? Come December, they may receive two more UPS packages and an additional late charge.

Reply by David Kruss on 11/14/05 2:24pm
Msg #76425

Just a little carried away, but right!

Perhaps you got a little carried away with your explaination of the situation we professional notarys face today, but you are so damned right!

$50 fees are insuting, especially when you remember that the borrower is (1) in reality the one who is actually paying the notary fee and (2) the borrower is paying at least what they were paying before the SS decided to lower the fee to the notary.

I have on my desk a relatively simple refi where the borrower is being charged $175. Does anybody think that the borrower actually knows how much the notary will be receiving? Of course not. If the borrower knew that the notary was getting $75, not $175 "like it says", they wouldn't pay the $175, they would want a refund of the difference. They get nothing out of the SS. They don't even know what a SS is or does, and they certainly didn't agree to hire a SS to locate a notary they never heard of and send them to their home.

It's time for a change in they way business is done.

Reply by Paul_IL on 11/14/05 11:56am
Msg #76367

So which Loser SS was it this time... Business is being ....

brought to new lows due to NNA and others pumping out newbies with the promise of easy money.....These newbies have zero clue how to figure profit or loss.....

Reply by Janel Nichols on 11/14/05 12:47pm
Msg #76400

Re: So which Loser SS was it this time... Business is being ....

Well said Paul! This industry is fast becoming the poster child for easy money! Not money to be made as a SA, but money to be made advertising on how to become one. Sad. P&L is the last thing a newbie thinks of when they start.

Reply by lokin CA on 11/14/05 2:44pm
Msg #76429

Re: So which Loser SS was it this time... Business is being ....

I am a newbie.

I do not even have my commission from the state yet.
But I can tell you, I did not get involved with this business to I could take 50.00 signings from anyone.

The expenses I have incured already are at least 10 times that and many of those are re-occuring ones, as in monthly High speed wifi and the such.

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks now and downloading different docs and generally doing my home work so when I am all set to start my business I will have a good strong foundation of knowledge.

I have to say from what I am reading it sounds like the majority of ss are pretty lousy, I agree with what you are saying about the degredation of this profession and the lowering of fees.

My biggest question is why do you go with the ss to begin with. It seems to me that the majority of this forum is in agreement about it, so why not do as was suggested in another post and band together and set up a universal pricing scedule and membership and then send it to the signing services, if you can get enough people to join you could force them to stop lowering fees. Just an Idea..

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/14/05 3:03pm
Msg #76432

Re: So which Loser SS was it this time... Business is being ....

***'My biggest question is why do you go with the ss to begin with. It seems to me that the majority of this forum is in agreement about it, so why not do as was suggested in another post and band together and set up a universal pricing schedule and membership and then send it to the signing services, if you can get enough people to join you could force them to stop lowering fees. Just an Idea..***

In reply to your idea. We would be operating illegally by price-fixing, so we can't have a universal fee. Secondly, as a brand new SA, you must go with the signing services if you have no experience in the field. The TC will never call you again if you make a mistake. They don't babysit or hand hold because they expect you to know what you are doing.
Your career with the TC's will be short lived if that's the way you start out. I recommend at least 100 signings before you play with the big boys directly.

Reply by JRinFL on 11/14/05 4:27pm
Msg #76441

Re: So which Loser SS was it this time... Business is being ....

While I do not support "price fixing," it seems to me that if everyone agreed ( in concept) that we do not want to work for the companies which low-ball us, we could just refuse to accept those jobs. This would go a long way in stopping the $50.00 type jobs being offered. refused a $65. job the other day because they wanted me to not only download the docs(another $25.00), but also to travel around 35 miles (one way) and did not want to pay me what I requested for mileage. I told them it was just not feasible for me to travel that far with gas prices being what they are these days. That was a deal breaker.

I think when a notary says they charge $65.---85.00 for a job, the SS should not act like we just knocked the breath out of them! It should be commonplace and they should pay it without batting an eye. Its within our reach if we all stick together.