Posted by Anonymous on 10/22/05 8:27pm
Msg #71945

3 Day Right To Rescind

I was a loan officer for a number of years and always had the borrowers date the right to rescind form the day they actually signed (even if the docs were printed with an earlier date). Now I have loan companies telling me to line out the dates and put the actual signing date/new recession date on them. I try to explain that the 3 day right to rescind clearly states that that recession starts from the date they sign the document (regardless of when it was dated). They disagree.
I would appreciate any opinions/suggestions regarding this issue.
Thanks!

Reply by BrendaTX on 10/22/05 8:59pm
Msg #71948

My experience only (not practicing law, giving legal advice, etc.) -

The usual practice for a signing agent would be as they stated. While I agree with what you say, this is the way I have been told to do it, so I do. Be sure to have the bwrs initial the changes.

Now that you are a notary signing agent you'll get on with hiring entities a lot better if you can just let them tell you what to do....as long as it is not illegal, of course. And, if you want to be successful, humor them.

Also, recognize you are now about the dumbest of dumb there ever was in many circles. Don't argue with them.

With your experience you'll do a great job and you will get more jobs because you left those up the chain feeling superior. Enjoy your lowly status and smile on the way to the bank.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 10/22/05 9:36pm
Msg #71953

>>> I try to explain that the 3 day right to rescind clearly states that that recession starts from the date they sign the document (regardless of when it was dated). <<<

Signing the RTC is not a requirement of Title 12 Section 226.15. Actually, the code says nothing about signing the notification, only that the notification must be given. The start of the rescission period is determined by the latter of the following three events:

(1) occurrence described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section that gave rise to the right of rescission: when the plan is opened; a security interest when added or increased to secure an existing plan; and the increase when a credit limit on the plan is increased

This is 'usually' that date the documents are signed, but in some cases may actually be a later date.


(2) delivery of the notice

(3) delivery of all material disclosures (TIL, etc.)

If the required notice and material disclosures are not delivered, the right to rescind shall expire 3 years after the occurrence giving rise to the right of rescission, or upon transfer of all of the consumer's interest in the property, or upon sale of the property, whichever occurs first.

It must be noted, that the US Code does not specify that an acknowledgment of receipt must be taken by the owner/borrower. Only that notice must be given. It behooves the lender to ascertain an acknowledgment as proof of delivery, but it is not required.

Reply by Anonymous on 10/23/05 9:02am
Msg #71969

Thanks for the info. I guess I'm just kind of annoyed because many of the loan companies I deal with don't seem to understand the form. In other words, I am being told to line-through, write in current dates (if docs were drawn on an earlier date) & have borrowers initial dates. It is an unnecessary step.
Again, I was a loan officer/processor for many years and I never made changes to the R-T-C.
Oh well, it's probably not worth the argument with the lender.

Reply by Bonnie_FL on 10/23/05 3:56pm
Msg #71997

Re: 3 Day Right To Rescind - date in future

How about when the RTC is dated 3 days AFTER your signing. Their RTC had (1) The date of the transaction (signing/closing date), which is 8/22/05 (their wording). Ending midnight of 8/25. BUT I was doing the actual signing on 8/18/05 so RTC shoudl have ended on 8/22 instead. SS and Lender would not let me change it when I called questioning it so I was uncomfortable with doing the signing and they found someone else. Turns out I am out of their data base now which upsets me, but what's the rule on that one? (Paul, this was in the same package I had a problem with when all the dates on the loan docs were in the future).

Reply by PAW_Fl on 10/23/05 6:38pm
Msg #72010

Re: 3 Day Right To Rescind - date in future

If the RTC is dated for some time in the future, I have no problem with that. The RTC transaction date is the date the account is opened. This may not be the day of signing, but the date the escrow (for disbursement) is established, so it may be a much later date. As long as the date is **not earlier** than the signing, there should be no problems. And as long as the owner/borrowers have at least 3-business days past the transaction, then there should be no problems.

The date of expiration for the Right To Cancel is up to the lender. The only requirement is that it be at least 3-business days after the conditions of the RTC are met.

Therefore, I submit, that even though you did the signing on 8/18, you were incorrect to change the dates on the RTC since the lender established when the transaction date was (8/22) and the expiration date to be that day plus 3-business days (8/25).

Reply by Bonnie_FL on 10/23/05 9:44pm
Msg #72018

Re: 3 Day Right To Rescind - date in future

I never changed the date, I questioned the date and was told to leave it be. I then politely said I was unsure about doing the closing and would they mind getting another signer and they told me where to forward the docs to. No one seemed to have a problem at the time. However, it came back to bite me in the you know what.

I have changed the dates in the past only when was told to do so by the title company. I would never take it upon myself to change dates without permission. And I am aware the changes in both place need to be initialed by the borrower. I have never changed anything without permission. I only asked this time since the date concerned me.

However on their form as I quoted above it specifically stated (1) The date of the transaction (signing/closing date) which is 8/22/05. So, in their own form, using their own words they put in ( ) the wording (signing/closing date). My interpretation of that was the date of my signing/closing date was 8/18 which was the date my BO's were signing and not the date they typed in as being 8/22.

I am no expert, but in 20 years of doing this I have never had the RTC date be a date after the BO signed the docs. I find it unfortunate that after also working with this company for a year and doing about 5 closings a month for them, after I question a doc, I am dropped from their site.

When I questioned why I was dropped from their site, they told me that the date of the RTC was correct since it WAS the actual date of the signing and they did not understand my problem. I then told them that the printed date was indeed NOT the date of the signing and instead that it was 3 days in advance. I even proved my statement since I had a copy of the RTC in question, but unfortunately I am still no longer a part of their company.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 10/23/05 6:46pm
Msg #72011

It's not an unnecessary step to correct the RTC to show the correct dates. This is required by federal statute. Therefore, if you are directed to change the transaction date (item #1) to the data of signing, then that's what needs to be done. And you would need to adjust the expiration date accordingly. (And having the owner/borrower initial such changes.)

Effectively, dates are not required since the federal code states that it is effective upon the completion of the three required conditions. So the dates may be meaningless, but still required to reflect accurate dates.