Posted by BrendaTX on 10/4/05 2:42pm
Msg #68790
Collecting From Title Companies
Okay, I am sitting here letting my hair dry before going to my signing and I wanted to run something out here...
If an SS does not pay, I will finally contact the title company, and unlike some of you have experienced, this works for me.
If a title company does not pay at 60 days in another state, it worries me. (And, one in FL is being hateful to me and owes me $175 for a closing in August that they promised to pay w/i 18 days. Now I am getting the old "we mailed you a check WEEKS ago.")
Here are some actions I am thinking of taking:
(1) Reporting it to the State of Florida. We have an insurance division here that oversees title companies.
(2) Reporting it to the lender.
(3) Reporting it to the Mortgage Bankers Association (that's who they are in Texas, anyhow.) of Florida.
(4) Reporting it to the state's financial committee (again, we have one in Texas).
(5) Reporting it to the most weighty title company association in the state.
I am sure some will think this is dumb, but I think it's not a bad idea to spread the love out to the state and to the professional associations. It will make me feel better anyhow when the time comes.
I have never been stiffed on a fee yet. I am just trying to keep a clean record.
| Reply by Anonymous on 10/4/05 2:52pm
Msg #68798
I think those are great ideas.
| Reply by DellaCa on 10/4/05 3:10pm
Msg #68808
I am fighting to get payed now from a Title company , comments from escrow I have nothing to pay you with as the loan did not fund you have to collect from the LO. The Lo will not return my calls or fax , I have now sent a certified letter to see if he will sign for it.
Will see what happens next, I had another one from the same company but he finally payed I guess he was tired of me in his space?? But I worked hard for my fee .
| Reply by BrendaTX on 10/4/05 8:05pm
Msg #68873
Maybe try what all Melissa suggested in this thread. I am.
| Reply by Melissa Mills on 10/4/05 4:28pm
Msg #68832
Brenda, Was the property in FL or just the title company? I've had good luck with this method: 1) file a BBB complaint and 2) fax a copy of that complaint and your invoice (with demand letter) to the offending company, their lender, etc, and mention that, if the invoice is not paid in x number of days, you will be forwarding the invoice to the borrower for payment. I usually make my time frame very short, three to five days, and note that I expect the payment to be sent to me via overnight delivery at the company's expense. So far I'm batting 1000 with this method.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 10/4/05 6:45pm
Msg #68858
Property is also in Florida. Signer (military guy) is in my neck of the woods. THANKS much for the suggestion. Here's the letter I wrote them today.
I had faxed them and said that I would notify the bwr, the lender, alert the notary and mortgage boards, and I would advise the state insurance board/agency.
I also emailed them and got a reply that they'd sent my check out weeks ago. Next, the guy must have read my faxes and that's where this will pick up:
=============
After just reviewing the multiple faxes you have sent to my office (all at same time) it may be best if you call me before I move forward on this matter. It seems to me that a short phone conference is necessary at this time. Please do so at your earliest convenience.
BRIAN
=============
Mr. ____:
I have received the note about. You have been sent four faxes. And, no, you are incorrect. They were not all sent at the same time. They were sent at separate times, but regularly, to assure there is no mistake. By phone, you requested faxing over email. I complied.
Whether or not we speak on the phone is not criteria for paying a bill, nonetheless, I will listen to your explanation or your reply, or whatever it is you have to say to me as to why you don't like the four faxes I sent, or otherwise. However, I have already called you previously. I have decided not to call you again. You can call me toll free 877-xxx-xxxx.
You were curt to me the first time I called to get this matter cleared up. I hardly think I will cringe for hearing another curt reply to my request to be paid--and I'll do it on my dime, but I won't call you again. It is not required for me to be legally due a payment.
If I don't have a check by 10-10-05 I will move forward as stated in my faxes. I don't take kindly to having my invoices ignored. I have never not be paid on a job. If you choose to take this route, you will be the first one to push it this far.
Whether or not a future phone call transpires, you are obligated to pay me. The faxes said the same thing your email did. They should not surprise you, or be reason for further dalliance on this matter.
BRENDA
| Reply by Anonymous on 10/5/05 7:33am
Msg #68910
ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
I'm remaining anonymous for this post for obvious reasons. Not sure how many TC's actually read our rants...I've been fortunate that I've had very few no pays and always from SS..never had one with a TC. BUT, when 30 days hits, I fax the SS a "Past Due" invoice notice. If not paid by 45 days I fax them a "Final Notice" invoice. On my final invoice it clearly states that if payment isn't received within the next 15 days that the borrower will be contacted for payment.
I've had to do this a couple of times..usually the borrower calls the broker who calls the SS and magically I'm paid immediately. In 2 instances, the borrower paid me directly and then filed a complaint with the TC for reimbursement. Ultimately, the borrower is the responsible party as you were providing the notary service to them and the law in my state is that the person being "notarized" is responsible for the notary fee.
| Reply by Charm_AL on 10/5/05 7:48am
Msg #68911
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
If I was the borrower you try to collect from, I say bite me and report you. I would have already been charged and paid for your service according to my HUD.
| Reply by Anonymous on 10/5/05 8:01am
Msg #68915
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
Same "Anonymous" here..for this one anyway. IN MY STATE, I have the right to collect from the borrower. The fact that they were charged on the HUD is not relevant as the fee never reached me. The borrower's I've called have all been VERY understanding, and nice about it. I simply explain that I'm getting stiffed from a dead beat signing company, further explain what a racket our biz is...and that I can't afford to work for free. Hard for a borrower to say "No" when they know I saw thier "borrower disbursement" on HUD for big bucks.
| Reply by Marlene_USNA on 10/5/05 8:19am
Msg #68922
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER - what is your state?
Just so we know, save checking laws if everyone knows what state. . .
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 10/5/05 9:02am
Msg #68927
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
I find two things wrong with your premise. (Of course, I may be in error in my thinking as well.)
>>> Ultimately, the borrower is the responsible party as you were providing the notary service to them and the law in my state is that the person being "notarized" is responsible for the notary fee. <<<
First, you were not providing a service to the borrower. You were providing the service to the title company (through an SS possibly) and/or for the lender. Your contract is not with the borrower. If it were, they would have the right to choose who does their signing _before_ the signing takes place. Borrowers, to my knowledge, are not offered this option. Additionally, the signing agent is not listed on the Affiliated Business Arrangement document which would also be required, imo.
Second, as signing agents, we do not charge a notary fee. We are charging the hiring company a flat fee for the service as a signing agent, incidental to the notarizations of the borrower signatures. The notarization fee would have to be specifically itemized and presented separately.
Please tell us what state you are in, and, if you can, the statute that states the person whose signature is being notarized is responsible for the notary fee.
| Reply by Anonymous on 10/5/05 9:38am
Msg #68930
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
FIRST....I'm in Florida and have been a paralegal/notary for almost 20 years. Our statute is so vague that everyone interprets it differently. Mainly, it states that a notary can charge the SIGNER a fee per notarial act. It does not mention third parties.
SECOND....IN MY OPINION ...you are a Notary first and a Signing Agent second. And that's coming from someone who has done well over 1000 loans of all types. It is your notarization that is mandatory. You are simply supplying the un-notarized docs as a mobile service and having all signed at the same time.
THIRD....MAKE THIS BIZ WORK FOR YOU not vice versa....these are a few of my "secrets" and they have been working very well for me for many years.
1. Edocs-DO NOT print them until you call the borrower, tell them they arrived via your email and do they want any information before you hit print. Borrower's are smart. They know exactly what you are implying. They ALWAYS say "Yes, how much does it show I'm getting back?" and "What interest rate did they give me?". I only print the docs if they reflect the "deal" the borrower was promised over the phone with their broker/lender. You'd be amazed at how many signings I've saved this way. OVERNITE: Call the borrower and tell them the docs arrived and go thru the same confirmation process.."Anything you want to know before I come to your house?"
2. Once at the signing, the first thing I do is give them my card and explain that I am a "local" just like them and that I represent them in this transaction ie. I am there to confirm thier identity and to witness and notarize them signing their loan papers. I take out the Borrower's copy only. I show them where I read the info to them on the phone ie. HUD, Note, Mtg., Prepayment or Adj Rate Rider. They confirm all is as I told them. I then thoroughly explain the RTC and again reiterate that I am not an employee of the Lender, TC or SS. They get the picture.
The times I've had to call the borrower for payment, these folks honestly felt bad that I was getting stiffed. I simply explain the situation with the SS and ask them " Is there anyway you can help me out?" They always are glad to help by calling the TC or even offering to pay me directly and seek reimbursement from the TC. I never threaten anyone. I don't have to. It's all very legal.
FYI.........IN FLORIDA a Non-Compete Agreement cannot be enforced. Nor can a Third Party Contract that does not clearly state provisions covering the customer ie. borrower in this case. Further, even if a SS wanted to sue you for collecting from the borrower it would get kicked out of court. On my invoices, in very tiny writing at the bottom, it states that I have the right to collect from the borrower if not paid within 60 days. JUST FYI FOLKS! Hope all have a super great day!
| Reply by Melissa Mills on 10/5/05 10:37am
Msg #68938
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
I'm not going to address the rest of your post, but I recently read several cases regarding the enforcement of non-compete clauses. In some cases, they are enforceable.
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 10/5/05 10:54am
Msg #68948
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
>>> Mainly, it states that a notary can charge the SIGNER a fee per notarial act. <<<
Nowhere in the FL statutes does it state the that 'signer' is responsible for the payment of the notarial fee. The Governor's Manual does make a reference to it on page 55:
In addition to the situations described above, a notary may refuse to perform a notarization in a variety of circumstances, such as when:
the signer cannot pay the notary’s fee for services;
I disagree with your statement:
>>> ... you are a Notary first and a Signing Agent second. <<<
I don't place one duty above the other as they are separate and distinct. One cannot perform as a Notary Signing Agent without doing both. And, there have been many times that being a notary has had nothing to do with the process at all. (And that's coming from someone who has done well over 5,000 loans of all types. )
>>> it states that I have the right to collect from the borrower if not paid within 60 days <<<
IMO (and not to be construed as a legal interpretation nor advise), I contend that the statement is meaningless since this is an agreement you have with the hiring agency. The borrowers are not involved in the contracting of the service. Your invoice doesn't even go to the borrowers, so why would you expect them to pay you? They are paying for your service through their contract with the lender/broker. Do you have any case law or bar opinion to substantiate this claim? I would be very curious to see what the courts have to say.
| Reply by Anonymous on 10/5/05 11:24am
Msg #68959
Re: ALWAYS COLLECT FROM THE BORROWER
Just passing along information. Some may find it useful. Some may not. In Florida this would fall under small claims court on both sides. Florida is a "Right to Work" state, not a Union State which is why the courts rarely recognize a Non Compete. I'm a Native Floridian and spend much time keeping up with how the courts rule in many venues. And, as I stated, our notary laws are very vague and outdated. Hopefully, if we can ever get proper legislation passed our laws would be updated and to the notary's benefit.
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