Posted by Brenda/CA on 10/31/05 1:46pm
Msg #73243

Deed of Trust

I have a signing scheduled for tomorrow 11/1/05 the company that e-mailed the documents accidently dated everything for 1/1/06. I called them to advise them of the error, and they told me to change the date on everthing I notarize, and initial the changes, as well as have the borrower's initial the changes. It is not legal to notarize a document with a future date on it, and I don't think the deed of trust would even record with a date that is crossed out and the correction hand writen in by the notary. I feel they should redo the docs with the correct date. Any opinions on this matter. TIA

Reply by FastCA on 10/31/05 1:49pm
Msg #73245

You are right on!

Reply by Art_MD on 10/31/05 1:49pm
Msg #73246

Get it in writing.
Make sure you have an written agreement if the loan doesn't fund re: your fee.
I don't know if the DOT will record. Posssibly up to the county clerk.

JMHO

Art

Reply by Brenda/CA on 10/31/05 2:01pm
Msg #73257

I just spoke to the man that sent the docs. He claims it is a typo and that I am making a big deal out of nothing, and they don't need to fix the documents. He said it dosen't matter if the date was three years ago, or three years in the future, as long as the notary changes the date and initials it. I told him it is illegal to notarize the document with a date that has not even occured yet. He then informed me that I don't know what I am talking about there are no notarial laws in regards to dates. He then sent me an e-mail to change the date and intial end of story. With his attitude I am considering cancelling this signing.

Reply by FastCA on 10/31/05 2:08pm
Msg #73259

Where is the SS office located ?

Reply by Brenda/CA on 10/31/05 2:09pm
Msg #73260

they are located in Southern California

Reply by FastCA on 10/31/05 2:15pm
Msg #73261

Please call the NNA hotline, (if you are a member), and get the straight skinny for your own peace of mind. Or call the SOS in Sacramento or click on the SOS link on this site. I think you are right.

P.S. I will do the same. God luck!

Reply by Brenda/CA on 10/31/05 2:24pm
Msg #73264

I just called the NNA hotline and they said that I should have the borrowers go through all of the docs and they correct the dates and initial each correction, the notary should not make the changes or initial the changes.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 10/31/05 2:29pm
Msg #73266

If you have been instructed to cross out and change the date with initials by the lender then that is what you are to do. You make a note to be included with docs stating "date year incorrect on docs. Per so and so please cross out, change, and have borrower initial". I would have the borrower do this on all docs to be notarized as we cannot notarize docs that we have had to prepare in any way. Include that in your own notes as well. If it doesn't record then they can send you out again and pay you accordingly. It is not ours to ask why, it is ours to get the ink dry. Some lenders won't chance it and will do a redraw and some wont. My personal opinion is that it wont record but I am not a title expert and it is not my job to be one. As long as we follow our State Notary Laws and cover our own hinies we will be alright.

Reply by Jon on 10/31/05 8:38pm
Msg #73308

"It is not legal to notarize a document with a future date on it..."

That is wrong. According to the Ca SOS, the date of a document is irrelevant as to whether or not it can be notarized. The date is part of the content of the document and not the responsibility of the notary. Just make sure your notary certificates have the correct date.

If the company said to have the borrowers change and initial the dates, do it. For you to make your own decisions about what should be on the docs is very close to UPL, especially after receiving instructions about how to proceed.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 11/1/05 4:20pm
Msg #73479

Re: Jon

Jon,
just because an SS or TC tells me to do something, that does not make it correct. If it is your policy to do it just because you were told to, then I wish you luck because it is your commission that is at risk if you do something illegal, just because you were told to. There are alot of SS & TC out there out there that just want to get the job done. As a notary it is your responsibility to make sure that what you are being asked to do is legal. A document that is dated several months in the future( in this case) does need to have the date changed, or technically you are notarizing something before it even exists. I am not making decisions about what should be on the docs, I am however doing my research to make sure, that the changing of the docs date is legal. You need to pay attention to the question that was asked before you reply, assuming that I am wanting to make decisions of what is on the docs.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/1/05 4:34pm
Msg #73482

You're the one that needs to pay attention Brenda

And you might wanna take the bitchy attitude down a couple of notches. To tell Jon what you expect him to do before he replies to a post is laughingly obnoxious. He's free to reply to anything on this board in any way he sees fit.

Jon said "If the company said to have the borrowers change and initial the dates, do it. ". So why are you rambling on about the docs being dated in the future? Once they're changed then THEY'RE NOT DATED IN THE FUTURE!

As a notary, the contents of the documents are irrelevant to us. The TC can't tell us how to complete our notarizations, but they are certainly within their rights to ask us to have the borrower make corrections on the docs. Whether or not these corrections will prevent the loan from funding? Not our problem. And for you to research whether the changing of the dates is legal is overstepping your bounds as a notary and moving into UPL territory. The only laws you need to be concerned about are the notary laws.

Reply by Charm_AL on 11/1/05 4:43pm
Msg #73483

Re: You're the one that needs to pay attention Brenda

I don't understand all the drama! If the TC tells you to correct the dates, it's pretty clear that you correct the dates! It's not your concern as to whether it funds or not or anything else concerning real estate law.
All you're doing is making corrections per the TC's request. Cancelling the signing for your own reasons is not professional at all.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 11/1/05 5:30pm
Msg #73494

Re: to Clarify

To clarify,
1) I have not cancelled the signing.
2) I am not stating what should or should not go on a document.
3) I am not displaying a "Bitchy" attitude, I am simply defending myself against accusations that I want to say what goes in a document and what does not.
4)I am not worried if it funds or even records that will be the TC's problem.
5) I was simply trying to find out if the date change was legal, the last time this problem occured, DOT was dated the next day, and they simply rescheduled the appointment for that next day.
6) Just because a SS or TC tells you it is ok to do something, does not make it right, it is still your responsibility, to make sure that what you do is legal!!
7) I called the NNA hotline, and was informed, the borrowers should make the change, and initial it, I do not make any changes.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/1/05 7:22pm
Msg #73520

Re: to Clarify

"You need to pay attention to the question that was asked before you reply"

c'mon, admit it, that is pretty bitchy.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 11/1/05 7:32pm
Msg #73523

Re: to Clarify

And yes I could have better worded that statement. I agree he is entitled to his opinion, as is anyone else.

Reply by Jon on 11/1/05 6:19pm
Msg #73509

Re: Jon

I was paying attention to what was asked, you should pay attention to what my answer was.

The date on the documents is irrelevant to performing the notarial act. It is considered part of the CONTENT of the document and as such is not within the scope of a notary.

"A document that is dated several months in the future( in this case) does need to have the date changed, or technically you are notarizing something before it even exists."

That is the one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard! If it doesn't exist, how could you actually have it to change the date? When you change the date, does it suddenly "come into existence"?? Why is it that post dated checks are just as valid as checks with the current date, since the date detemines whether or not the check actually exists? Sometimes it is good to use simple logic.

"...I am however doing my research to make sure, that the changing of the docs date is legal."

As a notary, it is not your responsibility to make sure that you only notarize documents that are "legal". For you to determine whether or not it is "legal" to change the content of a document is UPL.

When it comes to correctness of the document, the only part you are responsible for is the notary block, and making sure it is completed according to state law. Since you were instructed to change the content of the document by the TC or SS, you should do as instructed. If they tell you to do something illegal concerning your notary block, of course you decline and follow your state laws. You are assuming more responsibilty than you should.

BTW, my commission is not at risk when I allow changes to changes to the content of the document at the direction of the person who hires me. As long as I am completing the notary block according to state law, I have nothing to worry about.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 11/1/05 7:27pm
Msg #73521

Re: Jon

The mention of UPL is what am not following. I am not talking about real estate law, or anything else but notary laws and procedures. I called the NNA "National Notary Association", and referred to handbooks (also notary). And, ask opinions of other "notaries". So yes I can call that research.

Reply by Jon on 11/1/05 8:51pm
Msg #73534

Re: Jon

If you are "researching" for your own knowledge, that is great. The UPL comes in when you tell the person who hired you that what they want on the docs is illegal. Even if you are correct, you are crossing the UPL boundary by making that determination.

The date on the document is not covered by notary law in CA, because the document date is considered part of the content of the document.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 11/1/05 9:43pm
Msg #73544

Re: Deed of Trust-Brenda

Brenda - you've made some really absolute and very incorrect statements in your thread, and responded to very good advice that will save you alot of grief in the future with a ton of "attitude"...as your SS pointed out.

Without going through the whole thread and point by point (as Jon and others have pointed out) re-state what's already been said, I'm amazed the attitude - it comes out loud and clear.

No notary is EVER responsible for the contents of a document including the date, and holding the position you did with your SS even irked THEM. There is no need for you or any other SA to "own" a document and scrutinize it from every little angle as to it's "legality".

You seem to have some pride in this, and it's misplaced. Jon is right on, and you'd be wise to re-read this whole thread minus the chip on your shoulder - after all you ASKED for opinions!

Reply by Brenda/CA on 11/1/05 11:49pm
Msg #73586

Re: Deed of Trust-Brenda

I would like to extend an apology for offending anyone that responded to the original post. You are correct I did ask for the opinions. This signing is complete, the borrowers made the date changes and initialed them. Thank you to all that responded.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/2/05 12:06am
Msg #73590

Re: Deed of Trust-Brenda

Brenda - You are a good man. You did a fine job of that. I'd like to put you in charge of all my apologies, if you don't mind. I like them so much better coming from you.