Posted by AnnaCA on 10/12/05 1:05pm
Msg #70035

Interesting Loan Signing on MY loan docs

Hello all. We're buying a condo and we signed our loan docs last night. We had a notary employee from the title company come over around 6pm, everything went pretty smoothly, but a couple of things happened that I found interesting. He was very knowledgeable about the docs and was able to explain the meaning of everything clearly and easily, even without our asking (i.e., pointing out the truth in lending doc, showing us what our interest rate was, showing us how they arrived at the closing costs, etc.). But when it came to signing his book, two things happened. The journal page we were supposed to sign was loose out of the notary journal. He told us his journal was recently stolen, the last page he was using was removed (yes, it had other people's sigs on it), and it was recovered within 24 hours. His boss gave him a copy of the same numbered page from her journal so he could include it in his own journal (the boss had the same corresponding page in her journal, but it was blank so he used it to make a copy). He said that he reported the theft to the Secy of State and was advised by some notary organization (don't remember the name) that it was acceptable to put a copy of blank journal page in the space where the one page was removed, and keep it loose in his journal to use for future signings. The other issue was that he didn't use his notary seal at the table. He filled out the journal, had us sign and put our thumb prints on the loose journal page, but said he was going to stamp the seal on our docs the next day when he returned to the title company's offices. He left us with a complete (unsigned) copy of loan docs.

Opinions?

-AnnaCA

Reply by Kat_in_NC on 10/12/05 1:21pm
Msg #70038

It has been that way for every property of mine that has been closed with a signing agent at my house. They did not sign or stamp the docs in front of me and they left me with a blank copy for my files. What good would it do to have a copy signed for my files? As for the notary not signing in front of me or stamping - it did not bother me although I do ask to see that they are the actual notary since they are in possession of my Soc Sec # I did keep their name and phone #. That is the only worry I have, is people having so much of my info - I have had credit fraud 3 times and that takes MONTHS to clean up.......

Reply by ColleenCA on 10/12/05 1:24pm
Msg #70041

Hmmmm...very interesting. First of all, why didn't they just start a new journal instead of using a copy of a loose sheet and 2nd of all if I'm not mistaken, he should have used his stamp at the time of the notarization as he is legally notarizing on the day that you were before him, not the next day in his office. Any other opinions????

Reply by Kat_in_NC on 10/12/05 1:47pm
Msg #70049

The book "copy" seems quite odd. NC does not require us to keep a journal but I do anyway. For my personal loans closed by a signing agent, again, I have never seen them sign or notarize in front of me - I do on closings but others have not. It is their rear.... they may do it when they get home.

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/12/05 1:54pm
Msg #70052

my opinion. No loose journal pages! Get a new journal. He should stamp and notarize before the borrower. I pkg the borrower's copies separately and give the pkg to the borrower after the signing.

Reply by Merry_CA on 10/12/05 2:03pm
Msg #70054

When I did my last refi the broker came to my office to have me sign the docs and the journal. She then said she would have to take everything back to her office for her son to stamp as he was the notary! Yikes! Lots of folks playing fast and loose with their notary commissions out there. I am continuously asked to backdate and send loose pre-stamped acks. It's a free-for-all and the notaries who are willing to "play" are getting plenty of work (at least here in CA).

Reply by B__CA on 10/12/05 2:33pm
Msg #70058

Did mama bing sonny's journal with her for you to sign and leave a thumpb print?

Reply by Jules on 10/12/05 3:24pm
Msg #70068

Notaries not stamping seal at time of signing

I always sign and stamp my seal on the documents at the signing table. IN CA legally you are supposed to do that. There are lots of notaries taking short cuts. I was asked a couple of times by an attorney to notarize and or witness documents that were signed elsewhere. I asked how can they sign my notary book? No answer. I found this same attorney presigning and prestamping blank notary acknowledgements too. Needless to say I don't work there any more and I reported him to the secretary of state.

Reply by Jon on 10/12/05 11:51pm
Msg #70174

Re: Notaries not stamping seal at time of signing

"I always sign and stamp my seal on the documents at the signing table. IN CA legally you are supposed to do that."

I disagree, there is no Ca statute that requires a notary to stamp docs at the table. It only requires that the acknowledgement be completed at the time the signature and stamp is affixed. I will add that I always complete the notarizations at the table. If you don't, the possibility for error or missed stamps skyrockets. It is a good practice to complete notarizations at the table, but not required by Ca law.

Reply by B__CA on 10/12/05 2:31pm
Msg #70057

Wonder what he considers backdating? Just a question!

Reply by Anonymous on 10/12/05 4:20pm
Msg #70082

Aren't you supossed to leave the borrower's copies of the loan docs? Just curious why you added in that he left you blank copies. Isn't that the right thing to do? I'm in CA

Reply by TitleGalCA on 10/12/05 9:14pm
Msg #70132

First Anne, his notary journal is his business, as I'm sure you know. IMO, there's no problem with "not" stamping his stamp on the docs at the signing table. I read the other post about the "legality" of that - hello? As long as the TC receives the docs back with the correct certificate and date and stamp, who cares that the SA chose to stamp the docs at a time later than the signing - it happens all the time.

When I'm signing a large package that requires a lot of "stamps", often I take them home and do them later, before I send the docs to escrow. I'd like to see where it is "illegal". Very strong language, IMO.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/12/05 11:36pm
Msg #70172

This information is wrong in Calif.

It is illegal for a notary to not complete the notary act at the time of notarizations!

This includes the filling out of the notarial verbiage, sealing with notary seal, signing the document as the notary and attaching the notary verbiage to the document, if necessary! (Loose Certificate Attachment.)

Revocation of Notary Commission if WILLFUL; Minimum 6 months suspension if NEGLIGENT.
Its a Misdemeanor/ possible jail incarceration.

I have no idea where the notion that a notary in Calif. could bring home/office/etc. loan documents and do the notary work at their leisure/pleasure/convenience!! Its against the LAW in Calif.

Once his notary journal pages were stolen he needed to buy a new journal. What was he thinking?

Reply by Jon on 10/13/05 12:44am
Msg #70184

Re: This information is wrong in Calif.

I must disagree with you. Please cite the code that requires the completion of the notary cert at the table. Ca law implies that the time of notarization is when the notary affixes the seal and signature. There is no mention of where that must take place.

Reply by Charm_AL on 10/13/05 8:27am
Msg #70202

Re: This information is wrong in Calif.

well, where's the code? This subject is interesting to me. Is it ok to not notarize at the table???

Reply by Jon on 10/13/05 11:30am
Msg #70247

Re: This information is wrong in Calif.

For Ca, it is not against the law to do the notarization somewhere other than the table. In my opinion it is extremely stupid though. Kind of like initials for changes on the notary cert., not required by law, but only an idiot won't initial changes they make on the notary cert. Failing to do so leaves way too much room for fraud.