Posted by SDgirl_CA on 10/18/05 11:51pm
Msg #71131

Last Name Issue

I had a signing this evening that I did not go through with because the woman's last name was different on her driver's license than the docs. She is planning to change her last name back to her former husband's last name to be the same as her kids but has not gotten around to the DMV yet. She had nothing with this last name except for a work badge from 12 years ago. The SS was not available... Did I do the correct thing? I have been doing this for 2 years and never ran into this situation. Thanks

Reply by TitleGalCA on 10/19/05 12:03am
Msg #71132

Yes, SD, you did the right thing. This is a basic Notary question for ID in CA. You did right.

Reply by Brasring_Ca on 10/19/05 12:06am
Msg #71133

You did what I would have done. If she had no current ID for the last name printed on the docs then you cannot notarize that name. She will either have to have the docs redrawn in her current last name or obtain current ID in the name on the docs that she is wanting to use. I believe you were correct in not going through with the signing! That is called being smart and knowing your laws! Good job.

Reply by Kelly M Robertson on 10/19/05 3:14am
Msg #71138

Why Didn't you Try to use Credible Witnesses?

I've also got to say that you have been extremely lucky! I find ID that does not match all the time and use CW's a lot. Don't forget that you are a Notary PUBLIC and must exhaust all legal avenues of identification. You cannot abandon a lawful request and Credible Witnesses is the next step if ID doesn't match.

Reply by Dave_CA on 10/19/05 9:23am
Msg #71170

How do you justify using CW when CA

law says that they are to be used only when the person does not have one of the acceptable forms of ID?
In this situation the borrower had a valid DL just not in the name on the docs.
the statutes also require that EACH of the following are true:

(A) The person making the acknowledgment is the person named in
the document.
(B) The person making the acknowledgment is personally known to
the witness.
(C) That it is the reasonable belief of the witness that the
circumstances of the person making the acknowledgment are such that
it would be very difficult or impossible for that person to obtain
another form of identification.
(D) The person making the acknowledgment does not possess any of
the identification documents named in paragraphs (3) and (4).
(E) The witness does not have a financial interest in the document
being acknowledged and is not named in the document.

I would really like to be able to use credible witnesses in situations like this but the California law seems to prohibit this.
I will try to ask the SOS later today and post their reply but I would also like to hear what some of the rest of the experienced SA's think.

Reply by Kath_CA on 10/19/05 10:05am
Msg #71183

Re: How do you justify using CW when CA

I agree with Dave. I had a signing where the docs were drawn with a version of the borrowers name hyphenated in a combination which she had never used legally at any time. So of course, she had no ID showing this name. I told the SS that I would not do the signing because what could credible witnesses verify. I may have been wrong, but it felt like the right thing to do at the time.

Reply by SDgirl_CA on 10/19/05 10:25am
Msg #71188

Thank you for all of your responses! I just spoke with the SS and they agreed that I did the right thing. I cannot beleive that the loan officer knew about this situation and still printed the docs in the wrong name.

Reply by Dave_CA on 10/19/05 4:01pm
Msg #71241

I just spoke with CA SOS and I was wrong

the person there said that it was perfectly acceptable to use credible witnesses in this case.
I basically just read the original email to them.
When I questioned her a bit more about the wording in the statue she advised not to read so much into it. The person did not have ID in the required name and so CW were OK.

I must say I like their answer I just think the statue is very poorly written.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/19/05 6:34pm
Msg #71273

SOS question

I haven't had to call the SOS with any questions. Is there one person there who handles all notary questions? Can we be sure that the answers we get are absolutely correct, or are they just the interpretation of the law based on who we happen to be talking to and we could get different interpretations from different employees?

It just seems to be that when the law states:

(C) That it is the reasonable belief of the witness that the
circumstances of the person making the acknowledgment are such that
it would be very difficult or impossible for that person to obtain
another form of identification.

That there is a reason for this, and that it's not reading too much into it to interpret as meaning that credible witnesses are not just another equal form of identification. Is getting an ID with a name change on it really "very difficult or impossible?" It may be impossible to get at that moment, but overall it's a very simple process, take the required paperwork to DMV, pay the fee, wait a couple of weeks and voila.

Why would the law be worded this way if it really just meant that credible witnesses could be used at any time if a person didn't happen to have proper ID on them? And where is the line? If a woman happened to leave her purse with her ID in it at home does that warrant the use of credible witnesses?

I'm honestly not sure whether the statute is poorly written or whether you got a poor answer.

Reply by Dave_CA on 10/19/05 7:00pm
Msg #71279

Re: SOS question

Cali,
I've only called 3 times but it seems the answers to your questions are:
No, No, Yes, Yes.
When I probed a bit on the difficult or impossible to obtain...
I was told suppose the person was ill. That would qualify as difficult.

I pressed harder on the requirement that they did not have any of the acceptable forms of ID because in the example the had a valid DL. I was told yes, but not in the name required for the docs so I was still OK to use CWs.

I'm also not sure as to poorly written or poor answer.
Perhaps someone else will pick up the phone and post the reply they get.