Posted by Anonymous on 10/29/05 9:21am
Msg #72988

NEED A LITTLE HELP.

I completed a signing Friday night. The borrower's ID is not a photo (NJ still has drivers licenses that have no photo, but it's still legal ID). Also, he refused to place a thumbprint in my journal book. I am seriously thinking of not sending the docs to the SS. The whole thing just seems suspicious to me. Any suggestions or comments?

Reply by PMA_NJ on 10/29/05 9:22am
Msg #72989

plus, i forgot to mention that his name and the non-borrowing spouce's name were misspelled on every signle page..... jeez I hate that.

Reply by SLP_VA on 10/29/05 9:45am
Msg #72993

I would not have done the signing without being certain of the identity of the person whose name I had to notarize. We, as SA need to exercise a high degree of care in determining the identity of the person in front of us. Without a picture ID, how could you do that? It didn't necessariy have to be a driver's license, but I would have asked for some type of picture ID. And he didn't even want to thumbprint your journal? Sounds fishy to me. I would have immediately terminated the signing and contacted the SS or title company and explained what happened.

Just my opinion.

Reply by Teddog_CO on 10/29/05 10:17am
Msg #72994

SLP_VA
I'm with you!! Would of called that signing "A Wrap" real quick. There is to much fraud out and about. Remember this is our profession and we have a lot at stake. Don't take any chances. If the guy was straight arrow he might of grumbled, but he would be able to give you a photo ID of some sort. As far as I'm concerned not willing to give me a thumbprint is A Big Red Flag. I'm just Verrrry careful about IDs.

That' just my opinion as well.

teddog_CO

Reply by DonR_NYC on 10/29/05 10:31am
Msg #72996

What does your notary laws say about identifying a signer? Since NJ does not require photo driver licenses this could be a problem. In NY the requirement is that the notary be reasonable satisfied that the signer is who they say they are. And let's be real, except for a photo driver license, how many people have other forms of photo ID? Not many.

As for the thumbprint in your journal, does NJ require a thumbprint in your journal (if NJ even requires a journal)? Check your notary laws,

The bottom line is that you CANNOT hold the loan docs; they are not your property and if the signer is truly who they say they are and you fail to return the loan docs you can, and most likely will, be sued. Forget the comments "not send back the docs". That is irresponsible and dangerous.

Reply by PMA_NJ on 10/29/05 11:09am
Msg #73000

The identification req'ment for NJ is that I am reasonable satisfied, which I am not.
There are no laws in NJ concerning fingerprinting, but I do not notarize without one... been called into court once to proove something and the fingerprint saved my rear.

Up until this point, I get the print in my journal after everthing else is signed and notarized. Wont make that mistake again, will have the print before signing. Thus my delima with not returning the docs, is that I have already signed, stamped and sealed them. The only way I will return them is to write VOID accross all the notarized docs.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 10/29/05 11:30am
Msg #73004

I agree that the ID issue is a problem when your state regulations do not dictate "photo" ID. However, I'd bet the lender's requirements may include an unexpired photo ID to confirm identity.

(The following is based on FL statute and the FL Bar's response.) As for the thumbprint, if you notary laws do not 'require' a thumbprint, then you cannot refuse service because of that. If you refuse a lawful request for a notarization based on the preferences of the notary, and damages are incurred by the signer, you, as a Notary Public (and a public official) may be held personally liable for those damages. And, I would surmise that your E&O probably wouldn't cover it, as it may be determined to be willful misconduct and/or negligence.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/29/05 3:09pm
Msg #73030

It sounds to me (based on what's in this thread, not knowing NJ law) that you are treading dangerously close to, if not already crossed over to illegal territory.

What does NJ law say about refusing to do a legal notarization? If there are no laws about fingerprinting, can you legally refuse to notarize something if they don't provide a fingerprint? It's not your job as a notary to make up rules as you see fit, it's your job to follow the rules that your state has given you.

As for voiding the notarizations, if you weren't reasonably satisfied at the time of the signing, why did you notarize the docs in the first place? If a non-photo ID is legal ID in your state, you better have a damn good reason why it didn't reasonably satisfy you other than "there was no photo". Did the physical description match the signer? What about it made you suspicious, aside from the fact that he wouldn't provide a thumbprint which he apparently wasn't legally obligated to do in the first place?

And do you know if the docs are date sensitive? If you arbitrarily decide to void your notarizations without any sort of reasonable cause and cause the borrower to lose a rate lock, you could find yourself on the receiving end of a nasty and well deserved lawsuit, and I don't think your E&O insurance would cover you for such a deliberate act.

My advice is to return the docs as is, learn your notary laws inside and out, and FOLLOW THEM no matter what your personal opinion of them is.

Reply by Mike_NJ on 10/29/05 4:48pm
Msg #73035

Keep the docs and pllan on being sued.. In NJ Notaries are not even required to keep a journal. So asking the person for a thumb print is unreal. You have a legal ID and must take it, We are not the ID police.

One less Notary a SS will use.. good job..