Posted by ReneeK_MI on 10/4/05 6:19am
Msg #68699

forming an NSA Assoc - The Dreaming Part

What if we had a voice that could ...

* act as a liason between the various related industries/entities (lending, banking, SOS, real estate, title, etc) and work in concert?

* speak on OUR behalf to those industries/entities in working towards changes that are both mutually beneficial and protective of all involved?

* by way of example - that could speak to the lenders about software changes they could implement that would REMOVE witness lines from mtgs/dots in non-witness states?

* by way of example - that could speak to lenders about a more uniform doc structure, uniform processes, uniformity to ensure ALL of our interests are best served.

* speak to the SOS (or whatever is appropriate in each state) for those who's states do NOT have explicit notary codes or guides in place? Every gray area left to the individual to interpret sets up the potential for harm. Why wait until one of us takes a huge hit - which would result in the necessary changes, of course - why not have a voice that protects us from that?

* get our NSA ducks in a row (yes, that leaves paragraphs to be elaborated on) BEFORE additional states become attorney states?

One of the biggest challenges to LIFE is a lack of effective communication - and of course that extends to this industry, and the various parts it serves. Anyone who's worn a few different hats in this industry has learned - the left hand isn't clued in to what the right hand is doing MANY TIMES, and it causes issues.

Take the issue of witness lines being filled in after-the-fact, as a primary example. While I'm still not clear myself as to the risks presented to the NSA (since I can log a witness, but can not control what happens to any document after-the-fact) - it seems like a good example to use because it IS a current issue being discussed and researched. Having worn several hats, I know the witness lines exist as a software cue, and COULD be linked to the property state, just as many other fields are linked. It's a simple matter, there are software techies poised every day from 9-5 ready to make such changes - it's just a matter of generating the information to the entire lending community. WHO CAN DO THAT? I don't want to watch some poor soul working to death in some settlement office, doing what they've been obviously instructed to do (adding witnesses) and CLUELESS as to the impending storm about to hit them - take the fall. If it's a big enough fall, the lending world will respond. Someone, somewhere, will get hurt and someone, somewhere, will be out millions. It would take a hit in the MILLIONS to gain the entire lending community's attention - and you know who ends up paying those dollars. This just doesn't seem (to me, personally, humbly, forgive me ...) to be the most fair route.

If we had a voice that could ADVISE the lenders as a whole ... the techie could answer his phone, say "sure, we can do that ... " and the changes could be made.

* that could allow us to be AWARE of what our local/state/national economics are, to ENABLE us as individuals to form business practices & policies to our best advantage?

These are my own thoughts, shot from the hip and open to serious input.

Reply by Frances MacDonald on 10/4/05 8:57am
Msg #68710

I'm in. Where do we start? It's going to be very interesting to see where all the "goings on" will lead. If these falsified mortgages get kicked out; will we have to get them all re-signed? I find the best way to avoid the TC problem is to make sure a witness is present. Period. If the mortgage they send has the witness lines then I tell the borrower they have to come up with a witness. Regardless of whether Florida requires one or not. I NEVER give out "blank" acknowledgments. I simply tell them that Florida law prevents me from doing so.

It's a shame that the NNA isn't more representative of our needs. They really hold very little value to a signing agent. Yet, TC's and Lenders like it when they see we are a member.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 10/4/05 9:33am
Msg #68714

>>> It's a shame that the NNA isn't more representative of our needs. They really hold very little value to a signing agent. <<<

This is exactly what happened to NASA when the NNA bought it. The dollar prospect took over from the original intent of the organization.


>>> I'm in. Where do we start? <<<

It's already started. However, history has shown that a project of this size and scope demands a full-time project manager or coordinator. It simply cannot be accomplished as a part-time endeavor.


>>> If these falsified mortgages get kicked out; will we have to get them all re-signed? <<<

The problem is that the "falsified" mortgages are not being kicked out. The recorder has no idea whether the witnesses were present or not. And, they do not check the contents of the notary certificate for accuracy or completeness, except for the obvious missing stamp. I've seen them being recorded with the wrong venue, or missing many of the 'required' elements. The recorders are not the notary police and an invalid notarial certificate does not necessarily invalidate the document.

Reply by Frances MacDonald on 10/4/05 10:29am
Msg #68728

The Florida Notary has no liability where these false witness mortgages are concerned. We are not responsible or in control of the document once it leaves our hands. The point I was making is that if these notaries report these falsified mortgages to the SOS or the STO, and the Clerk's office goes back and pulls them then the notary will have to file an affidavit stating that there were no witnessess present at the time of the notarization hence making the mortgage doc invalid.

That's when the courthouse will kick back the mtg to the TC for re-issuing. I choose not to "go there" which is why I protect myself by informing the borrower a witness is needed regardless of Florida law. Having a witness, when the law does not require it, does not "hurt" the document. You can have anything voluntarily witnessed whether the law requires it or not.

BTW, I did call the NNA and asked what their position was on the Florida witness controversy. Their reponse was that the notary should never volunteer (practising law) or ask (not your job) if witnesses are needed. If the TC informs the notary if a witness must be present. Then the notary should pass along the info to the borrower. The NNA standard response " Take no position in order to avoid legal liability".

Reply by Tina_MA on 10/4/05 10:45am
Msg #68731

I have to say that I would never want to work in a "non-attorney state" again. I am better paid and have protection against all the BS that used to be piled upon me prior to working for an attorney.

If someone doesn't pay, the attorney calls them and/or sends them a letter -- shortly thereafter, the check arrives. If someone gives me a hard time regarding back-dating or not having proper ID -- one call to my boss and people immediately back off.

When I cannot get a hold of a company to clarify the use of an acknowledgment or jurat (or anything else having to do with the documents), I call my boss and he tells me what to do. This has eliminated so many problems and helped to speed up the process, and also covers me for the decisions made.

As his employee, I am covered by his $3M professional liability policy. I'd never be able to afford that type of coverage. I am also covered by a Worker's Comp policy.

When Massachusetts decided to enforce their status as an attorney state, in my ignorance, I was completely against it. After working with an attorney for over a year now, I know better.