Posted by Bonnie_FL on 9/10/05 12:15am
Msg #64502

Document date

I received a loan package today (9/9) and ALL the docs were dated 9/12. 2 part signing. I do husband in Florida today, send pkg to wife's Notary in New York to sign her part in a couple days.

I know I have to date and notarize today (9/9) but had a problem with all the documents themselves being dated in advance. So, I called the NNA after I read their info which was a little confusing so I talked to legal counsel who explained ok for me to date and sign 9/9 IF dos were dated on or before 9/9 but NOT ok since all docs were dated 9/12 (in advance of my notarizations). They gave me number for Florida Notary Commission to verify and I called them to confirm and they agreed 100%.

I can witness and notarize anything with old doc date or current date, but not a document that has a date in the future since the clerk will reject the doc (once it gets into the hands of the clerk, the wife date and doc date will match but mine will be ahead. Doesn't matter that notarizations being done on different dates in different states, the problem is with my signature being 9/9 and the docs are all dated 9/12, it will look like I backdated, the clerk will reject and I am risking loosing my commission. NNA also said they were going to correct their site info.

I called lender and explained the entire situation - they got mad, said it was ok to sign today (Friday) for docs dated for Monday. I said no and they told me to find another notary since they had to have all signatures by 9/12. I said how would all signatures be done by 9/12 even if i signed today since drop off box would not even pick up until 9/12! But I also said signing company hired me and I will call them to see what they want me to do.

I explained my situation and SS insisted as did the lender that it did not make a difference as to the date of the doc, yes use 9/9 as my notarization date, send it to NY agent and they will then sign on the 12th and everything will be ok. Again I explained I cannot sign a doc with a FUTURE date prepreinted on all the docs (even though I will do my notary section with correct date) and that the future date DID matter. I cannot sign a document that looks like it was printed in the future.

Everyone got mad, I was shifted to several people at signing company, then told to send the pgk to the NY notary so the docs could be signed on the 12th since that was their deadline and they would find another notary in Florida to do the package when it was returned (which will end up being after the 12th).

But I was told by SS I had to deliver docs to NY notary to be received by Monday. I said no where were there instructions for Saturday pick up (my signing appt. was 7:30 PM tonight obviously after fedex pickup). I did not even receive my package until 4:30 this afternoon. So I had to find a Kinkos which was a 45 mile round trip (If I had signed tonight if docs were ok, I was just going to put docs in dorp off box as I have been donig for years). I said no one told me the docs needed to be received on Monday and then SS got mad at me and said just find somewhere to send them out to be received by Monday and hung up.

So, I wrote a note to NY notary explaining what happened and enclosed it in pkg. Contacted the borrower an hour later explained situation to him and he was upset that his lender nor the SS did not inform him and wanted to know when HE would be signing. i said I did not know but to call his loan officer since his appt. would have to be rescheduled. I felt bad for husband but explained what I was told by the Florida Notary Commission (needed back up).

Just venting, but amazed how mad and angry everyone got. And if they were on such a deadline, did it occur to them to get the docs to me earlier and date them with the appropriate date. Then everything would have been done by the 12th! What a waste of hours on the phone, driving to find Kinkos (I don't have Saturday pick up in my area).

I'm just glad the Florida Notary Commission backed me up on this one. Dates on documents do matter if they are dated in the future. i.e., cannot sign docs on a friday with a monday date preprinted on the docs.

Reply by DonR_NYC on 9/10/05 1:22am
Msg #64504

This is what happens when people who know nothing about notary law are hired by title and/or signing services and then think they know it all. And for once I am surprised that NNA had the right answer. A document cannot be notarized before the date of the document. Technically the document doesn't exist until the 12th so how can it be executed on the 9th?

Personally I would have taken the name of the person at title and if necessary go right up the corporate ladder until I found someone with a few working gray cells and let them know the incompetence of some of their employees.

Reply by Bonnie_FL on 9/10/05 8:21am
Msg #64522

Thanks Don, I agree, my point exactly when I saw the doc dates when opened the pgk, technically the doc did not exist. I wrote down the name of the person I spoke to at the Lender's office who said of course it is ok to sign and that they had a deadline. But I was switched o so many people at the SS I stopped writing and lost track but I do remember it was someone in QC. I do have a contact person at the SS and I plan on sending an email to them about the incident and why I said NO to the signing. First thing my husband said was what you said, go to the top and complain about their ignorance. I had to rush out the door to get to a signing that was scheduled before the one I refused to do, after that was over, drive over to Kinkos then home. So, I will put together an email over the weekend. I really thought it intersting that they all came back adn said the same thing...the document date did not matter at al, they were not asking me to do anything illegal, just use 9/9 when I sign. My whole point was yes of course I am using 9/9, I MUST that was the date of the signing, BUT how can I possibly put 9/9 on a doc dated 9/12.

I stood my ground hoping someone would agree since I do a lot of signings with this SS and even though this was a mess, I didn't want to lose them. But obviously they are just like the others out there that are out for a buck, give you wrong info, and they wouldn't be the ones who would lose their commission, I would.

The NNA was quite nice actually. The gentlemen I spoke to answered my question immediately and responded the way I knew it was...I then pointed out their answer site, he went to it and was shocked. He then checked with their legal counsel and came back on the phone very grateful I pointed out something to him they need to correct.

I checked my certification course booklet from the NNA which was also the opposite of their site. On the site, they talk about multiple signers (which was this case), but the wording was easily misunderstood. The legal counsel said that meant different notary dates and signing dates (of course matching) when the actual notirization was being done on a different day by a different notary for a different person. Not that it was ok to date a doc itself in the future. Doc needed to be dated the date of the FIRST signing.

It just urked me that I was so right from the get go before my calls, just wanted verification and got it. But the lender and SS were arguing with me. I said call the Florida Notary commission to verify what I just said...here's the number and that's when she got angry and said just send the docs to the NY notary and make sure the docs get there on Monday.

That's when another discussion began ... wait a minute, no one told me I had to do Saturday pickup. I would have thought I needed permission for that one since it costs more. Too late for pickup at my house for Friday night. Looked through everything, nothing about docs must arrive by Monday which means they had to go out Saturday night since signing wasn't until 7:30 Friday night. But I did it and drove the extra mile. THeir dime for the pick up and wrote a nice note to the NY notary explaining what happened since I am sure that notary will wonder why he is receiving docs that were not executed. Put my card in and he can call if he does not understand.

I am glad I stuck to my guns but I resent anyone getting angry at me so I plan on doing an email with my "story" to my contact person. But when I left Kinkos and came home, I emailed the SS "update" department letting them know I followed their instructions and fedexed the docs to the NY notary to arrive on Monday without having the first borrower sign in FL and again expained my reason why. First went into their website to do the update and of course, the client's name had been removed so I had nothing to update there. But I followed through on my job and did my final update.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Reply by B on 9/10/05 10:55am
Msg #64553

The sad part of all this is that if you do your job correctly and legally, all the lender has to do is complain about you and you are no longer used. You did right.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 9/10/05 9:55am
Msg #64541

For Bonnie ...

Bonnie,

Please email me (see profile), as I have some questions for you. Thank you.

Paul