Posted by MBCA on 9/10/05 1:28am
Msg #64506

Non Borrowing Spouse on documents

In a moment of weakness today I said I would do a Countrywide signing, some 260 pages more or less with borrowers copies! The borrower is a woman and when I called to set up the appointment she made a point of telling me that she was married, her husband was an invalid and she didn't want him on any of the documents. I carefully went through the papers and couldn't find his name anywere. The thing is on the instructions to the notary it says "Please ensure the non borrowing spouse signs the following documents". Then it brings up the usual list DOT, TIL, RTC and a bunch of others! My question is, should I have him sign and initial these docs or just leave it as is? She's going to be hopping mad" If I have to do this is there some actual law I can quote her or at least refer her to so she doesn't take off on me? The docs are coming from Texas and she said she finally got it through their heads there that he wasn't to be on the docs! I know we've had posts about this but why aren't these borrowers ever prepared for this and why do I have to be the bad guy/girl and tell her? Unless there's a way out!!!!

Reply by Renee Kovacs on 9/10/05 4:23am
Msg #64511

First I would try to contact the T/C, SS if there is one, L/O. If that fails I would:

1) Show her the instructions, point out the part about what non-borrowing spouse signs (which might help, as it points out "non-borrowing" part & in writing, which is often a sticking point on this issue).

2) If that fails to turn her into a nice, compliant borrower - I would then ask that she write a note explaining her decision, and include that she was advised by you that it may negate the funding of her loan, have her sign it, and put it on top of your package.

NEVER QUOTE LAWS, unless you ARE an attorney, very dangerous place to put yourself in! And try not to head into the situation with the pre-conceived idea that it will be a war - the best way to alter someone else's behavior is to alter your own =)

Reply by MBCA on 9/10/05 9:21am
Msg #64532

Renee,
Thanks for your voice of reason! One more thing, on the DOT does the nonborrowing spouse have to put his initials at the bottom of each page? Do I also need his name, driver's license (I know he has one because the wife told me) and thumb print in my book? I don't know what kind of shape this guy is in.

Reply by KarenJ_CA on 9/10/05 10:25am
Msg #64547

Yes to all of the above. The non-borrowing spouse would initial each page of the DOT and sign on the signature page. Make sure you also include both of their names on your notary certificate for the DOT. You would have a line in your journal for each of them, with their ID information, and have them sign and thumbprint.

Reply by janCA on 9/10/05 10:29am
Msg #64549

If the husband is not listed on any of the docs, I would not have him sign anything. I've done many Countrywide with non-borrowing spouse, and I don't remember any, where the name wasn't typewritten on the doc. If this man is indeed on title, there should have been a transfer at some point in time. And as Renee said, I would get in contact with the issuing agency to begin with and I wouldn't dole out any advice. Just have her sign as is. I wouldn't do any second-guessing.

Reply by KarenJ_CA on 9/10/05 10:36am
Msg #64550

I do agree with Jan not to second-guess. You might want to check the vesting page and see if the husband's name is shown.

Reply by B on 9/10/05 10:37am
Msg #64551

Countrywide wants the non-borrowing spouse regardless if there name is on the document or not, to sign certain documents. Check with the SS before just not having them sign because their name is not on the document. There are many different Countrywide offices and they do not all handle things the same. There is one out of Texas, that has the non-borrowing spouse sign nearly every document.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 9/10/05 11:22am
Msg #64557

It is required in the state of CA for certain docs to be signed by Mr. Nob whether she wants to do it or not. Try calling the lender first, then call the ss and let them know. What's the point of going out there if Mr. Nobs isn't going to be there ready and willing to sign. Your job isn't to go to the borrowers and have her fight with you about signing. You are there to collect the required signatures, initials, dates, and notarize. She has set herself up for a no sign if she refuses to have hubby there to sign. Now if she had POA it would be a whole different ball game with a totaly different way of her signing.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/10/05 7:14pm
Msg #64602

Re: Non Borrowing Spouse on documents - MB

Renee's response is a really good, safe way to handle a difficult problem that takes the heat off you, MB!!

Reply by B on 9/10/05 10:44am
Msg #64552

I agree with Renee, except you may want to call Mrs Borrower again and advise her that there
are documents for her husband to sign. If she doesn't like it she can call someone before you get there. Also, he may not be available if she doesn't think he needs to sign anything. I have had many countrywide that the non-borrowing spouse's name was not on, after calling title and SS they have assured me it is needed. Good luck!

Reply by janCA on 9/10/05 10:57am
Msg #64554

Unfortunately, Countrywide doesn't seem to have a standard

way of having docs signed. You'll just have to go with your gut-feeling if you're unable to contact someone who can give a definitive answer. As B stated, GOOD LUCK!

Reply by MBCA on 9/10/05 11:34am
Msg #64559

Re: Unfortunately, Countrywide doesn't seem to have a standard

When I called the borrower she state that he had signed a Quit Claim in the past! So he wouldn't be on title at all!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/11/05 1:29am
Msg #64641

Re: Unfortunately, Countrywide doesn't seem to have a standard

That has normally been the case in my experience, however, I had a Countrywide one today where the husband has signed a QCD, is *not* named as a vested owner, yet Countrywide wants him to sign the DOT and legals. (I think I've only seen that once before.) I did call ahead of time to be sure and that's what I was told.

This should end up fun since they are separated and not talking to each other and the wife hasn't been able to get ahold of the husband. Hopefully tomorrow... This is more a matter of lender requirements than anything else.

Reply by MBCA on 9/11/05 2:58pm
Msg #64683

Re: Protecting Wife's Interests?

Finished the signing and it went ok! Couple seems to be very happily married. Second marriage for both of them. I wondered why they wanted to take husband off title and I'm now thinking it could his daugher. If something happens to him would she be able to claim half the value of the home?

Reply by Nancy4_FLA on 9/11/05 9:32pm
Msg #64703

Re: Protecting Wife's Interests?

Whether a non-borrowering spouse had to sign certain docs is not a Lender requirement it would be a requirement of the State in which they reside. Each State has their own laws on spousal assets and that would determine if the non borrowering spouse must sign certain title and lender documents.