Posted by Evangelina Arvizu on 9/2/05 12:42am
Msg #63428

Notaries and Notary Signing Agents Can End A Practice

When consumers approach the counter of a county clerk, or the Secretary of State, does that consumer at the conclusion of the transaction, leave saying "Thankyou, I have what I need, now, and I am leaving and thanks, but I am going to take up to 60 days to pay for this lawful business transaction, despite the policy, the law, and oh, don't worry, I know where to find you, so you need not be concerned about my payment. Have a nice day <grins wide>." ????? Was never my experience.

So, I question the thinking, and even the integrity of Notaries Public who thoughtlessly diminish our skilled profession with
the excuse that .. "Oh, well, because it is a long-standing accepted practice throughout the field, it makes no sense to risk saying nope, payment on demand at the conclusion of the signing at the borrowers' table." Otherwise this continued abuse by closing agents, lenders, title and escrow officers, and we, will "go along" with the policy of the escrow or title officer, which is horsepucky...funds are in the escrow account, and it seems to me that these agents are simply holding onto money in a trust and taking full advantage of a float that serves them and their businesses, and we Notaries Public and Notary Signing Agents are enabling the practice. Think about it.

I am interested to know what your view is on the subject. Would any, or all, of you Notaries and NSAs be willing to risk stating, at the outset, that we MUST BE PAID AT THE TABLE AT THE TIME OF THE CONCLUSION OF THE SIGNING BY THE BORROWER?

Reply by Sheila Meinecke on 9/2/05 12:53am
Msg #63430

I have thought of this also. Why not get paid at the "closing"? Appraisers usually get their ch eck direct from the borrower at the time of the inspection. I think it is definitely something to give consider.

Reply by DC_NV on 9/2/05 12:56am
Msg #63432

Timely payment and stop short paying

I would be happy to do this, I make no bones on my acceptance of a loan also my price. I just had Veri Docs decide my 20.00 profit was too much and he wants to short pay me 15.00. I have sent a demand letter and will file appropriate complaints.
The good old boy system is alive and well and those who rock the boat are frowned on. So rock the boat, these signing services and loan companies come and go ALL THE TIME, start off as you intend to proceed.
So what is you PO a few, more are ALWAYS around and I don't take their garbage on payment or fees.
GO FOR IT!

Reply by Desiree Roman Innovations, Inc. on 9/2/05 1:08am
Msg #63437

Re: Notaries and Notary Signing Agents -LONG

This was actually a topic of discussion today with me and my significant other, who is also a CNSA. He received a call from a company that was on the No-No list and was about to accept the job before he received confirmation on whether or not the company was a deadbeat SA. Turns out he asked for more than they were willing to pay and received the proverbial 'I'll need to get approval and I'll call you back,' and of course never got a call back. He thought he might ask for payment in advance from this company since they were in fact on the list, known for either slow pay/no pay. We concluded that since the fees we receive are generally lumped in with TC charges, we wouldn't get paid until after payment was received from the TC. I've done refinances on my own home where I was not charged a notary fee (once because my significant other IS a notary and he notarized my docs for me, and once because the TC comped the fee for the Lender, who was 'trying out' the TC for the first time.) In a case of comping the notary fee, the TC or Lender would pay the fee for that; in others, the borrower pays through his settlement charges, so the fees come to us after funding, so we wouldn't possibly be paid at the table. On the flip side, I have done closings (like for Wells Fargo) where the borrower IS responsible for finding their own notary and has had to pay me at the end of the transaction. Twice I received NSF payments- luckily, the checks were redeposited quickly, and by then, the borrowers refinance funded and I was able to get my money. So either way, there are positives and negatives. The only for sure payments I've received are from my customers who paid by credit card. I pay the 3% fee, but I get my money before I walk out the door. Maybe we might consider that as an option in the future. That or retainer. I LOVE the idea of retainers. Give me a lump sum fee, I'll draw down on that money and when I get down to a certain amount, you replenish the retainer account. Kind of like Illinois IPass~

Reply by DC_NV on 9/2/05 1:13am
Msg #63439

Re: Notaries and Notary Signing Agents -LONG

I LOVE the idea of retainers!!!! That is a truely great idea!
Most of these companies are dealing in millions of dollars and if they have to wait to pay their vendors for each and every closing that is horse pucky.
I am also a pt time bookkeeper for a construction firm and we pay 25 net, period, wether we have been paid or not.
So if a small construction company can do this, these big companies do. Like the lady said, they are using our money in their float, we did not just fall off the turnip truck!

Reply by Roger_OH on 9/2/05 1:15am
Msg #63440

Re: Notaries and Notary Signing Agents -LONG

The difficulty in your dream scenario is that NSAs are located and hired by an SS or TC, NOT the borrower. Do you really want to cut out established relationships with these companies and rely on borrowers to find you on their own? You may get a few, but certainly not the volume the companies can provide.

The SS and TC often have to wait for their payments as well. My business functions well with a net 30 days standard. MOST of the companies out there are reasonable and will work with you. You just have to develop your client base like any other business, and work to maintain a positive relationship.

Reply by Iris_WA on 9/2/05 1:27am
Msg #63442

Re: Notaries and Notary Signing Agents -LONG

What occurs to me just off the top of my head is that if the Borrowers are the one to contract our services, are we neutral parties any longer?

By the same token, it belatedly occurs to me to ask if we are hired directly by the Lender, aren't we there to look out for THEIR interests and, therefore, also not neutral?? I've only worked for SSs, so neutrality is a given.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 9/2/05 7:44am
Msg #63449

To Iris

What little piece of paper is it that gives us the authority to witness the borrower(s) signatures and to notarize the necessary documents? In many states it is clearly in the statutes that we are to be an impartial witness. And in some states cannot have a financial gain. So, if the borrower contacts you, then you are an impartial witness. If the lender or tc contacts you, you are not to have a financial gain. Whatever we like to call ourselfs we are notaries public first.

Reply by Iris_WA on 9/2/05 11:16am
Msg #63489

Thanks for the clarification, Lawrence - N/M

Reply by LawrenceOK on 9/2/05 7:15am
Msg #63446

Re: Notaries and Notary Signing Agents -LONG

Your right Roger and I also operate on a net 30, not 45 to 60. My tc's & lenders normally pay within 7 days of funding and I have never had a problem getting paid from them. It always seems to be these SS's that tie up the works. If I have to send out a "I'am gonna tell your client letter" it's always to an SS. Any good comany will have the capital on hand to pay it's vendors, this crap about not getting paid untill they get paid is just that, CRAP.

Reply by BeccaWI on 9/2/05 7:33am
Msg #63448

Re: Lawrence

Do you have an example or any example wording? I have a SS that was a real jerk and now wont pay me net 60+!!

Thanks!!

Reply by LawrenceOK on 9/2/05 7:55am
Msg #63450

Re: Lawrence

Becca, e-mail me and I will send you a short version of my collection letter, please bear in mind that it works and that particular SS will never call you again. But then who needs companies like that anyway, not me. It will take me a little while as I have a signing at 10:30 my time and I have to hit the road.

Reply by Anonymous on 9/2/05 2:51am
Msg #63443

I think we must be paid by pay pal. It is the best way to get paid. It is easy. Most ebay stores accept only pay pal. There is no risk saying to no list comp. that we only accept pay pal. Think about it.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 9/2/05 9:09pm
Msg #63579

No way will I accept payment from any company via PayPal. Heck, I won't even accept payment from an individual for general notary services via PayPal. Why? Because it's to easy to renege on payment. I've been burned too many times when payments were to be sent through PayPal.

Also, most businesses use a bookkeeping system that requires some checks and balances. PayPal doesn't offer the required audit trails. This is not to say that there aren't e-commerce systems out there for business, there are plenty that are specifically designed for B2B, EBPP, EIPP, etc. processing. Just that, imo, PayPal doesn't meet the criteria.

Reply by Michael Friedel on 9/2/05 9:19am
Msg #63464

The fees we currently are paid included services besides just doing notary work. A few potential problems occur to me. If the borrower hired you directly as a notary then you would probably be subject the notary fee limit if your state of residence has a limit. This is 50 cents for each stamp impression in some states. And if you did get the fee you want ($75 to $150), would the borrowers give out many referrals when they find out their bank would notarize documents for free for bank customers? The bottom line seems to me to be less money if hired directly by the borrowers.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 9/2/05 10:48am
Msg #63482

When I refinanced it was the lender who found the Appraiser and paid him. On a side note the Appraiser tried to value our home at 35k less than what it should have been. I let the lender know, gave him my realtors number, directed him to realtor.com, and he went ahead and got another appraiser to come out and we put in $100 and got a proper appraisal.

The only thing I don't like is the ss that thinks that 30-45-60 days is an acceptable period. SS should do thier accounts payable either monthy, biweekly, or weekly. This excuse of "we pay after we've been paid" is garbage. SS should have enough in thier business accounts to pay those whom they do business within imo 2 weeks. I however would conceed to 25 days. I know there are those that float with the TC's payments in thier accounts, but for many small ss they don't have the money to cover payments until they recieve payment which is just bad business.

Reply by JRamirez on 9/2/05 11:28am
Msg #63491

You guys have touched a very sensitive subject.... finances. I agree with most of you that waiting to get paid is not acceptable. The unfortunate part is that Newbies are popping up more and more every day. It will be harder for the semi-newbies to go along with this because they have not established their client-base yet or are just starting their relationships. I'm of the opinion, as most of you, that I performed a service for either a TC or SS, more often than not, the same day I've been called. I performed a honest day's work and expect to be paid as soon as I invoice. I agree with you that say it's bad accounting practices to not have a "reserve" accounts payable fund. The way I see it, if I'm contracted by a SS I need to get paid by them. I don't want to wait for the TC to pay the SS who will then pay me. My invoice goes to the SS, so pay up. I've thought about paypal too. That would help us out a lot since we can then "track" our invoices with a third party who will also help us out if the SS or TC is a dead beat. The question now is.... are we really serious about this?

Reply by Terri_CA on 9/5/05 1:11pm
Msg #63776

Technically, in California a notarization is not a lawful one until the fees have been paid. I would love to see the NNA advocate on behalf of Notary Signing Agent members to fight for payment up front.

Why couldn't the borrowers be told that, as is the case with most appraisers, that they will send a Notary but the borrower is responsible for the payment of the Notary fees at the time the service is rendered.

I refinanced, I paid the fee to the Lender, upfront, for the appraisal. Why couldn't this also be done? Of course, these are retorical questions just to think about.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/5/05 2:07pm
Msg #63779

"Of course, these are retorical questions just to think about."

Thank you for saying that. While it would be great if we got paid up front like the appraisers do, to actually attempt to put that into practice is guaranteed career suicide.

Reply by Tina_MA on 9/5/05 5:59pm
Msg #63801

When I first became a NSA, my payments always came in the package with the documents.

The reason that practice stopped was due to the following:

1. Notaries cashing checks and not showing up to complete the signing.

2. Notaries making mistakes and not doing what was needed to correct them (I'm talking Notary error).

3. Loans not funding due to Notary error.

4. Mortgages not recording due to Notary error.

And I'm sure there were a host of other reasons as well.

What I do know, is that it would be unfair to the borrower to pay a Notary for a service and find out after the fact that the documents weren't signed and notarized correctly or that their loan is not going to fund due to Notary error.

So, until NSA's are universally or regionally trained/licensed to make certain that they know what they are doing, and are able to complete the job correctly, we will continue to receive payments after signings have been completed correctly.