Posted by CaliNotary on 9/23/05 1:24pm
Msg #66981

Now I've seen it all

I had a signing yesterday, husband and wife. The husband answers the door, I see a woman sitting in the living room, assume it's the wife. He takes me to the kitchen table, gives me his ID. The woman remains in the living room. I start my spiel about the proper way to sign the docs and he interrupts me to tell me that he will be signing for his wife as she has dementia and is unable to sign. Turns out the woman in the living room is the nurse and the wife is lying on a couch I didn't notice.

No problem, I ask if he has power of attorney to do this. Nope, he doesn't. I tell him that he can't sign for his wife without POA. He says "but I've done it before, call Kiki (the broker I guess) and she'll tell you it's ok". I told him that it didn't matter what Kiki told me, it was illegal for him to sign for his wife. He said "but you can get her thumbprint for your book, she's right here". Again I told him that it was illegal. He seemed surprised and said that we wouldn't be able to do the signing then. No kidding.

I'm not shocked when people try to get me to bend notary laws, but this shocked me. Obviously some notary has let them get away with this in the past. Who in their right mind could think that this was anything but fraudulent? What kind of broker would just send these docs out and expect them to get signed with no problem?

Reply by Kiso on 9/23/05 1:35pm
Msg #66983

That's not right at all! We work hard to get licensed and certified and what not.....I wouldn't want to jeopardize it...but it's sad how some notaries risk all of that.

Reply by Renee Kovacs on 9/23/05 2:36pm
Msg #66992

Perhaps the gentleman just hasn't been exposed yet to the world of caring for someone who is unable to care for themselves. There's so much you have to learn about, and I guess you just learn with each situation that arises.

I can empathize with him - and there is absolutely no credit to anyone else in this situation but you, Cali, for setting him straight. He'll be needing a P.O.A. for many things - I do hope you advised him to seek some legal advice?

Perhaps the last time he went through this, she wasn't completely incapacitated.

Reply by Giselle_CA on 9/23/05 5:17pm
Msg #67016

What some notaries are willing to jeopardize is beyond me. I am glad you let the gentleman know you could not do the signing under those circumstances. Hopefully, he will take the necessary steps to make the right/legal thing.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/23/05 5:52pm
Msg #67021

"There's so much you have to learn about, and I guess you just learn with each situation that arises."

You're definitely a more optimistic person than I am Renee.

While I don't believe that there was any malicious intent involved, I refuse to believe that the borrower didn't know that forging his wife's name on the documents was not legal. This wasn't a couple that just fell off the turnip truck, this was at a condo in Beverly Hills.

I'm guessing that he's just been able to get away with fudging things like this for as long as she's been incapacitated, so he hasn't wanted to be bothered with going to court and getting legal Power of Attorney over her, and it sounds like it's too late for her to grant it to him since she's suffering from dementia.

I can certainly empathize with what he's having to deal with, but he really should know better than to try to enter her into legal contracts by forgery.

Reply by Renee Kovacs on 9/24/05 6:32am
Msg #67084

Well, he's dug his own hole, like you said - because it would have been so much easier had he taken proper care of the issues long before his poor wife became totally incapacitated.

As I said in an earlier post, different thread - things have a way of striking balance.