Posted by Brasring_Ca on 9/16/05 11:13am
Msg #65674

POA signing with out of state docs.......

Okay, I had a signing yesterday and did not have time to ask my questions so, this is after the fact but just had to get some advice. These were the docs from "you know where"! It was an 80/20 with two signers, one of whom went on vacation and gave power of attorney to the other to sign for her. Each of the women borrower's were married and had to have the husbands sign off on the property with no interest in it. I had the borrower who was here to sign the papers, sign the other borrower's name such as Jane Doe, by Jean doe attorney in fact on each line that required Jane Doe's signature (which took forever as you might guess).

This makes for writer's cramp for the one signer but I believe this was the proper way and on intials she would intial ( JD, JD AIF ). Does anyone know if this was okay?

Then on docs needing to be notarized, 21 signatures in all, loose certificates had to be used because the state was filled in as Arizona (where the prop was located) and county of Pinal. I used the Jurat stamp whenever possible instead of loose cert but what a mess. In the notorial wording for each time the not present borrower was to be included I put her name in like this (Jane Doe by Jean Doe Attorney in fact and Jean Doe) this would represent wording to cover both parties. Was this correct, I hope?

Thanks to anyone who can help me out while I just hope that I did this all correctly! I think next time I will get more info before performing this kind of signing and charge way more, as it took 3 hours!!

Reply by janCA on 9/16/05 11:40am
Msg #65676

Brasring, did the lender authorize the signing with a POA?? Also, you will only put the name of the person that is appearing before you in the acknowledgement/jurat. I would call the SS/lender and ask if this was how they wanted these docs signed.

Reply by Brasring_Ca on 9/16/05 1:10pm
Msg #65699

The lender was aware that this was a signing with POA. I just was unclear of how to represent the name in the notorial wording.

Reply by B on 9/16/05 12:36pm
Msg #65694

Jan is correct. You only put on the notarial certificate the name of the party that has the ID and signs the journal. CA does not recognize capacity so you would not put it on there. I would show two entries for each item in the journal the 2nd entry showing that she was signing using a POA for the other person and that person's name. You can show this in the remark section.

Reply by Brasring_Ca on 9/16/05 1:13pm
Msg #65700

Well, at least I did the journal correct but I may have a problem then with the name put in the notorial wording as Jane Doe by Jean Doe attorney in fact and Jean doe. The notarizations may then need to be redone. Oops!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 9/16/05 12:36pm
Msg #65696

Assuming the lender was okay with the POA, it is the lender's call (or title's) on how the docs are to be signed and initialed. Most often, is it "Jane Doe by John Doe her attorney in fact" and "JD by JD, AIF", for sigs and initials, respectively.

Now, for your acks and jurats. You can only put in who appeared before you. Since you are in CA, you cannot include the capacity of attorney in fact for the signer signing on behalf of someone else. And, in the jurat, only the person who is physically present can be placed under oath, and that person cannot take the oath for someone else. So the principal of the POA would never be included in a jurat.

In the future, whenever you get a signing with a POA, ensure you have definitive instructions from the SS, title or lender exactly how the person is to sign for the principal.

Reply by Brasring_Ca on 9/16/05 1:14pm
Msg #65701

Thank you. I think next time I might just pass altogether!

Reply by B on 9/16/05 7:15pm
Msg #65738

You'll learn. Sometimes you don't even know there is a POA until you have already said "YES".

Reply by Peter Lipke on 9/16/05 5:25pm
Msg #65728

Brasring...

Interesting back and forth here. Just to let you know, I've done a number of POAs here in NY and the ss has always instructed me to do what you did on the acks. Jane Doe by Jean Doe as POA and Jean Doe. I can use either POA or AIF. I have not needed to do a jurat so I agree that only the person taking the oath can sign. I've never had one come back but I always check first with the ss or tc as to how they want it signed.