Posted by Harry [NR] on 9/23/05 4:18am
Msg #66855

Premier Membership Fee Increase: Good News, Bad News

Effective immediately.

In an effort to curtail the rapidly increasing number of Premier Members on Notary Rotary, we have raised the membership fee. Believe it or not, this is very good news for existing Premier Members and bad news for Basic Members who have not upgraded but want to. Here's what it means to both member types:

Premier Members
=====================
The base membership fee is now $59, but you will be credited $10 for each Premier Membership you have purchased, not to exceed two credits. In other words, the fact that you're Premier right now means that you will not pay more than $49 for your renewal. If you have had more than one Premier Membership with us, you will not pay more than $39 for your renewal. New competition in your respective markets will have to "buy-in" if they want to play. This is our way of thanking you for your patronage. THANKS!

Basic Members
=====================
The minimum fee a Basic Member will now have to pay to upgrade is $59. That fee could increase considerably based on several factors, such as the number of Premier Members currently in a Basic Member's area. In other words, generally speaking, the longer a Basic Member waits to upgrade, the more they will ultimately have to pay. However, once the "ante" is paid, the Basic Member joins the ranks of the Premier and the pricing scheme changes for future renewals.


If you would like to know what your renewal or upgrade cost is, you must sign-on to your account and click the My Account button. Your options and current pricing will then be displayed. If you are a Basic Member in an area with a low concentration of Premier Members, upgrading will likely cause each of your Basic Member competitors to pay an additional $5 (not to exceed the maximum membership fee).

However, if you are in an area with a heavy concentration of Premier Members (e.g., many parts of California and large metro areas across the U.S.), YOUR first year of membership will cost considerably more and will likely have no bearing on what other area notaries pay. If you're serious about the profession, you will need to take a hard look at whether you think you can recoup the cost of a 1-year membership on:

o Signing Referrals
o Product Discounts
o Access to the Company List

In short, if you don't think you can reap TWO signings from the benefits we offer over the course of 365 days, or if you don't value other features of our site, the Premier Membership is NOT FOR YOU. Stick with the Basic Membership. (Hey, it's free!)

As a reminder, here are the benefits to Notary Rotary membership:

http://www.notaryrotary.com/library/memberships.asp?sec1=1&sec2=0

We will be adding additional features in the months to come.

Harry
Notary Rotary, Inc.

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/23/05 7:03am
Msg #66858

so...If I understand this correctly, and mind you, I've only had one cup of coffee so far...We premeire members have had a raise in membership fees to continue to be listed that way and we are basically supporting the 'free basic members'?
I think you should get away from basic free memberships and concentrate on making it fair for everyone with a nominal fee, such as the $39.00 for premiere. Why should I pay more while other are here for nothing....it reminds my of my hard earned tax dollars going to welfare because people don't want to work.

my 2 cents

Reply by LilyMD on 9/23/05 7:09am
Msg #66859

Maybe I'm not awake yet either. If I'm getting it...my question is wouldn't it be better to charge a smaller fee for a basic membership? That way there are no free rides.

Reply by shan_CT on 9/23/05 7:57am
Msg #66868

I have to say, even though I am only a basic member, which is free I have to agree with the others that you should make it a fee to be a basic member instead of raising the premiers rates up. I know this affects me and well as the other basic members but if we want to be in this business as well then we should have to pay some sort of fee as well. Sorry if this is an unpopular stance with the other basic members but I have to say even if it is 10 or 15 still way worth it for the amount of advice and experience we can gain on this site.

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/23/05 8:07am
Msg #66870

shan_CT

Thank you for your honesty! I wish other basic members would come forward and say their piece on this issue. I just don't get how raising premeire rates and charging basics $59.+ to join is going to "curtail the rapidly increasing number of Premier Members". It would seem to me that the basics just got pressured to join and premieres just got a fee increase.

Reply by shan_CT on 9/23/05 8:12am
Msg #66872

Re: shan_CT

Your welcome. I hope they all do. I know that since I started looking at this site I have found lots of great info about who to work for and who to NOT work for. I would gladly pay a fee to continue viewing this site. Thinking about the Premier but did not know how much more business it would generate. I am only able do do signings at night and on the weekends. So far with just the basic I seem to be doing fairly well. Still thinking though.
I hope it all works out for you Premier members, I hope Harry views these posts and takes the idea of charging basics instead of raising Premiers. Good Luck

Reply by Merry_CA on 9/23/05 12:55pm
Msg #66974

I'm with you Charm... Leave membership at $39 for EVERYONE... no free membership, no free access to the forum, no free profile. For those who think that only the top listed NSA's (premier members) get the calls for jobs... a SS only has to work through the 25 or so listed free members to get those $50 signings done. JMHO. My prayers to all in Rita's path!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 9/23/05 8:10am
Msg #66871

Like others, Harry, I too think that even the basic members should carry some of the load. You aren't running a notary welfare service. You provide an excellent service to the notary community.

A couple of suggestions:

Keep the premier membership fee at $39
Make a basic membership fee at say $19
Premier membership has all the benefits, while basic membership has limited benefits, primarily being able to post to the message board and possibly receive a 5% or such discount, while premiere members get a 10% discount. (Arbitrary figures)

Non-members are free to read the board, but posting not only requires registration, but also membership. You may even consider a sub-basic "poster" membership that allows one to register on the message board, but not be a "member" per se.

Just some thoughts.

Reply by ColleenCA on 9/23/05 8:19am
Msg #66874

I completely agree with all of the above. PAW FL's price structure seems quite logical. I don't think I would renew my premier membership if it were to go up.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 9/23/05 10:09am
Msg #66921

My turn to chime in. I agree with Paw and I have had basic for over a year. Why raise the premier memberships? It would be better business sense I think to start making us basic members pay up. I would be willing to pay $19 for a basic membership with the privileges I now receive. jmo

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 9/23/05 1:04pm
Msg #66976

There are two adages that come to mind: You get what you pay for and No free rides.

To increase Premier Membership while allowing basic memberships to ride for free only punishes the Premier Members. I believe that EVERYONE should pay *something* and it shouldn't just be the Premier Members carrying the burden of cost. As for the one comment that work is slow and can barely pay electricity to have the computer turned on, that individual is definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time and has no business being a signing agent and should possibly look into getting a J-0-B.

I thing PAW's pricing suggestion is exccellent and fair for all. After saying that, I will continue my Premier Membership no matter if Harry follows through with his pricing increase or not. However, using Charm's logic with welfare, I don't think it's fair for me (or any Premier Member) to carry anyone unwilling to pay *something*. The majority of basic nonpaying members have already said how much they gain from the forum -- so I would think that would be worth something to them.

And lastly, I hope that Harry will remove the Anonymous option for posting once and for all.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 9/23/05 2:33pm
Msg #66991

I second the motion to remove ANONYMOUS posting.

Reply by CarolynCO on 9/23/05 2:32pm
Msg #66990

PAW says *You may even consider a sub-basic "poster" membership that allows one to register on the message board, but not be a "member"*

something along the lines of being able to read the messages but not being able to post -- that might also be a way of eliminating the Anonymous posters.

Reply by Kevin Ahern on 9/23/05 8:30am
Msg #66879

I don't see any problem. Support that which you use. The price of the premier membership is certainly reasonable enough, and it is a fact of life that inflation requires price increases. Even with the proposed increase it is certainly less expensive than other forms of advertising, and it produces results.

Reply by newlysmomva on 9/23/05 8:55am
Msg #66883

As slow as my business has been and low as income has been, I'm lucky to afford the electricity to run the computer.

Reply by corona71 on 9/23/05 9:40am
Msg #66904

From what I understand, corret me if I am wrong, but being a basic member has all the privledges of a premium member, except that premium members are listed first when someone does a search. So why should the premium members get punished with our hard earned dollars when basic members get a free ride. They have all the benefits we have except without paying for it, hmmmm you are right charm, seems like welfare to me!

Reply by LawrenceOK on 9/23/05 2:41pm
Msg #66999

As a basic member, I DO NOT have all the privileges that premium membership brings. There are certain restrictions to the basic membership.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/23/05 9:00am
Msg #66887

I don't have any problem with this - at all.

First, I look at how it affects me...when I renew, I'm paying a whopping $10 more for my yearly membership. Teeny price to pay for what I get out of my membership.

Second, I personally don't care about Harry's reasoning in determining pricing for HIS business - I'm not a basic member, so I don't care how Harry structures their pricing. For me $10 is nothing for the value I get out of this advertising and forum.

Just my 2 cents.

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/23/05 9:17am
Msg #66897

TG...

I agree in that a small raise of the premiere fee is ok....but that's not what I take issue with.
IF everyone has to pay something, there wouldn't be a need to raise the premiere's renewal fee and the 'basics' were made to help carry the burden. I DO care about the reasoning behind this raise. I want to know how this helps curtail the influx of new premiere memberships and why the basics are still getting a free ride if they choose. I like PAW's idea....everyone that uses this site benefits, whether basic or premiere and we should all contribute to the site. That is what is fair concerning all of us.

I've been here for awhile as a premiere, but I can't see paying a higher renewal fee every year to support those that won't contribute but get the same access. Yes, they have to search the SS list on Google or something, but the SS list hasn't added anyone new and I've maxed that out, so it doesn't do anything for me. Yes I get listed at the top, but what about the CA notaries that are listed under zip search and 50 are premiere and 600 are basic....what does that do for them? I don't know, but I'm just not seeing what benefit it is to us to raise the premiere fee.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/23/05 9:45am
Msg #66907

Re: TG... I hear ya, Charm

and all the above points are good ones for Harry to consider. I'm thinking two things: first that if oversaturation in my area is a consideration for a different price structure, It's my problem not Harry's to worry about; also I really don't think there's any benefit to being basic. In my area, if you do a search you get 25 premier members before you even get to a basic member. I doubt any SS would go down to number 33, in looking for a notary.

I just look at the $10 fee as a normal increase I might pay anywhere for a yearly membership. The forum is a "plus" to me, but I'm really here for the advertising.

Just quick thoughts...I'm now officially late to work, so off I go to pay for that wonderful health insurance; etc. etc. that's the bene of the "8-5'r"

(Don't forget that Friday funny...I look forward to it!)

Reply by OnTheGoInFla on 9/23/05 10:01am
Msg #66913

Re: TG...

I don't have a problem with the fee increase and if the people in my area feel as you do about not renewing the premier that just moves me up on the list. This makes the extra $10 well worth it. If for example there are as you said 50 premier members in my area and half of them don't want to pay the extra 10 that improves my percentages by a 50% I like thos odds. I think I figured that right.... either way, I have a better chance of being called

Reply by LilyMD on 9/23/05 9:21am
Msg #66899

Re: I don't have any problem with this - at all.

At the risk of contradicting myself, Titlegal has a valid point. Although, for me, my thought isn't so much about an extra $10 as it is about having to pay to carry another. I guess it's the whole "higher interest on credit cards due to bad debtors mentality" that had me thinking this morning. No matter what Harry decides is his best option, my membership will continue because it's proven to be most valuable to business.

Reply by TinaG_CA on 9/24/05 11:31am
Msg #67115

Re: I don't have any problem with this - at all.

I agree with TitleGal. I just renewed my membership. I received a call from a Title Company for a signing and guess where they found me? Yep, Notary Rotary. So, that one signing paid for membership and left me with a profit. I do have to agree with the others who believe that the basic members should have to pay something as everyone does benefit from the wealth of information on this site. I actually convinced a friend, and fellow SA, to upgrade to Premier. I believe it is a good investment.

Reply by TCMN on 9/23/05 9:55am
Msg #66910

I agree and disagree


I'm fully aware of the "CRAP" I'm going to get for saying this but I will take it and what I'm about to say is all common sense.

I think that IF Premiere membership does go to $59 I don't think that's anything compared to the calls you get as a Preimere Member.
Are you telling me that none of you can take 30-50% of ONE closing to pay for your membership for a YEAR here?

Are you kidding?

You can't possibly understand what the REAL cost of Marketing or Advertising is. Think about if you had a retail business and the cost of just putting a print ad in your local paper for ONE week. Let me tell you what my real estate ad cost for a SAT & SUN in my local paper (9 lines & the ad was about 1 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 inch)....ready?????? $210.00 for the WEEKEND.


I agree that BASIC membership SHOULD be charged a fee and I think PAW is right $19 for a year is nothing, absolutely nothing for a fee. IF PT people can't take $19 for advertising expenses for a year, then you need to quit because the cost of doing business is too high for you to work.

I know I'm a little sarcastic above but really people, can you tell me I'm not correct in the logic?

I'm not trying to be mean at all, but soemtimes you have to put things in such a way for people to really understand the common sense of it. It's very simple and he's NOT asking your to pay $495 for a lifetime membership that could change or end because the lifetime fo the program has ended with the program update now being implimented (i.e VR)

jmho

Reply by corona71 on 9/23/05 10:01am
Msg #66911

Re: I agree and disagree

I don't think anyone has a problem with raising the fee, the problem is basic members not paying for anything while the premium members take the brunt of it. They too are reaping benefits here for free.

Reply by Kath_CA on 9/23/05 10:03am
Msg #66914

Re: Premier Membership

Good comments from all, but ultimately it's Harry's business and he was generous enough to throw out his thoughts to the membership. I for one think Harry can do anything he wants and we as professionals have to decide if there is value in continuing to advertise on this site. I will continue to be a premier member. I'm in So Cal and still get much of my business from this site. Quite a value for the money, I'd say.

Reply by Teasa Mahar on 9/23/05 10:06am
Msg #66916

Hate to be a duh....

But if we are prem members when is the increase eff. On the year anniversary that we became prem??

Reply by Mike_IA on 9/23/05 10:13am
Msg #66926

I going to assume that there are many more Basic (free) members than Premiere (paying) members. And from a business point of view it's easier to get people who are paying something to pay more, than it is to get people who pay nothing to pay something. That being said the value of this site to companies looking for notaries is the number of notaries listed. The greater the number of notaries listed, the better chance a company has of finding a notary in the geograhpical area they are searching. If Basic members were required to pay, my guess is that a greater number of Basics would choose to drop than paid. If that was true then the overall number of notaries would drop making the site less useful to companies. And before someone posts it, I know the adage, "quality is better quantity". Just my observations on the situation.

Reply by Charles_CA on 9/23/05 10:07am
Msg #66917

Seriously convoluted thinkng

I may be wrong on this one becasue I like many of you am just settling in with my first cup of coffee but the logic expressed seems highly convoluted. I can understand an increase in pricing based upon an increase in costs but it appears to me that the premier members are being assessed because we are the ones who have borne the costs of this site. Of course also the sales of supplies contributes tot he overall operating income but I suspect that the majority of the sales also come from the premier members. I know I already had my material when I joined this site originally. I have started buying my supplies from Notary Rotary recently as my supplies have dwindled. I have to agree with Charm that this is tantamount to welfare. While the addtional amount is not going to cause me any pain my sense of doing what is right is sorely affected. I am certainly not going to leave Notary Rotary for the small amount extra but I feel slighted by the approach. It makes no sense to me!

Reply by Kat_in_NC on 9/23/05 10:39am
Msg #66942

Pricing is just not an average increase-My area now $79

As I am new, I have found the value in this sight and was considering going Premier. But I am only doing evenings and weekends in which I would not mind paying $9.95 for a regular membership. BUT I just pulled up the Premier cost and in my area it will be $79. to become a Premier member now. As he put it, saturated areas will cost more (not just $10) but this area is not saturated (63 in all within a 50 mi radius-6 of them Premier) and I am in a Metro area so my thoughts are: what is it going to cost for a REAL SATURATED AREA????? I pulled zips 92660 and they have 2471 ppl in a 50 mi radius - 626 in a 20 mi radius...94028 is 915 in a 50 mi radius... from what I understand, if they are charging for over saturation and there is a $79 fee where I am, what will the fee be for REALLY saturated markets???? I cannot join now at the rate of $79 since I am part time but I would gladly pay $9.95 for the priveleges that I have now on this site for free.

Reply by Anonymous on 9/23/05 12:36pm
Msg #66971

My area now $84 - 6 Premier 17 Basic within 50 miles n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/23/05 11:10am
Msg #66956

Re: Seriously convoluted thinkng

have to disagree on this one, Charles, as to the convoluted part.... Basic members may have access to the board and are listed for free, but let's face...they aren't "first up" as premier members are in a search, and again, I doubt if an SS is going to go to number 33 or 43 to find a notary. For example, I have a listing on 123Notary too - I think I'm probably about number 75 on the list, and have not paid for upgrade, and NEVER get any calls. The same holds true for NotRot - I'm one of the "first up" for my area because of my premier membership - I paid for it.

This is a simple business decision on everyone's part for their advertising. I've stated why I think it's no big deal to me. I think it was considerate of NotRot's owners to post their reasoning in regard to an increase but certainly not necessary, and they don't owe me any explanation. I don't feel like I'm providing welfare, or slighted, I feel like I get a value for my money. If I don't like it, I don't have to renew.

Oh, well...if all I'm ever called in my life is "convoluted" I'll consider myself lucky!!!

Reply by RickinVA on 9/23/05 10:45am
Msg #66945

Re: Premier (Not for me) Bad News

Of the SSs that tell me, the vast majority indicate that they got my name from a different source than this one, and usually, the same one every time. I am on a "Basic" membership, and have no plans to upgrade until I hear people telling me that NotRot was the place they got my name. If I do a search for Notaries in my zipcode, I get---ME. The next closest is 20-30 miles away. I know there are some closer, but I haven't found them. I also know that from Mar 2004 to Feb 2005, NO listing anywhere did me any good. I received absolutely no calls for my services, (and did no business). Since then, I have done about 20-30 signings. (Glad I didn't quit my day job!)
I sincerely hope Harry doesn't stop the free basic membership, since I glean some important lessons here, and occasionally can assist by answering some of the easier questions, but if that happens, I'll be gone with regret, but gone it will be.

Rick

Reply by PAW_Fl on 9/23/05 1:39pm
Msg #66984

Re: Premier (Not for me) Bad News

>>> I am on a "Basic" membership, and have no plans to upgrade until I hear people telling me that NotRot was the place they got my name. <<<

I submit that when someone is doing a search, they're not looking any further than the premier member listings. Therefore, I am not surprised at all that no one has told you that they found your name on NotRot. Of course, it may also be the area you're in.

I have been a premier member for quite sometime. I often get calls from saying they found my name on NotRot. Why? Because I'm listed at or near the top. If I were a basic member, my name may not even be listed, depending on the zip code search used.

I also find it somewhat unsavory that you would cut off your nose to spite your face by not paying for what you get. You stated you "glean some important lessons here". Is that not worth a mere pittance?

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 9/23/05 3:49pm
Msg #67008

Re: Premier (Not for me) Bad News

I upgraded to Premier about a month ago (give or take a couple of weeks) and have heard that they "found (my) name on Not Rot" about 8 times since then. I'd say that $39 investment was well worth it to me. I've picked up several new SS and at least two TC since then. I have to give most of that credit to Not Rot, although the Signing Agent database has sent me several folks as well.

I always ask when I get a call from someone new because I want to know that I'm spending my ad money in the best places.

Reply by RickinVA on 9/24/05 6:32pm
Msg #67174

Re: Premier (Not for me) Bad News

PAW, ( interesting choice of TO: header), I respect what you do, and your 'even' way of posting, as well as the willingness you have to assist those who ask, but I must respectively disagree. My advertising money is geared to what seems to me to work. This site doesn't, for me. It might be because I am the only one in this small county (and area) that shows up when someone checks who is in my zip code, but, interestingly enough, if I pick another close by zip code, another individual does show up, and he is a minimum of 25 miles further away than I am, but is listed before me, but NOT as a premier member. This particular Notary MUST cross one of 2 bridges to get to a zip code area that is 14 miles from me, and he is a minimum of 25 miles away. (Due to the river, the bridges of which he MUST cross.) Yes, I could pay the money to become a Premier member, but that would not solve the problem of the limited amount of benefit to me to become such a member. When I determine that a particular listing in a particular database would benefit me, then I might be willing to increase my advertising budget, but until then, I suppose I'll just have to muddle along as I am.

Rick

Reply by Winston_Tn on 9/23/05 11:38am
Msg #66963

The conflict here is definitely not a concern about the money, but a concern about the presentation and delivery of said message.
I will assume there was no deliberate intent of condescension, but am in awe of the opening premise, and anyone’s capacity to believe it.

"In an effort to curtail the rapidly increasing number of Premier Members on
Notary Rotary, we have raised the membership fee."

My initial thought is; Why would you want to 'curtail' the increasing Number of Premier Members? Isn't that beneficial to the site and the Notarial Community as a whole? Then the pieces begin to fall into place as you read further.

"In other words, generally speaking, the longer a Basic Member waits to
upgrade, the more they will ultimately have to pay."

"If you are a Basic Member in an area with a low concentration of Premier Members,
upgrading will likely cause each of your Basic Member competitors to pay an
additional $5"

The next three paragraphs are devoted to 'scare-tactics' and 'urgency' directed offhandedly at the Premier Member to renew, but squarely targeting the 'Basic Member' to Upgrade now! Upgrade First! Isn't the intended result of this going to "rapidly increase" the number of Premier Members ( only at the new higher rates ). Stir in a little 'value' guilt;

"In short, if you don't think you can reap TWO signings from the benefits we offer
over the course of 365 days, or if you don't value other features of our site, the
Premier Membership is NOT FOR YOU. Stick with the Basic Membership. (Hey,
it's free!)"

and the stew is served with the classic marketing mentality of an OPEC executive.
Now we are left with only two viable hypotheses for this implementation strategy,
and one closing remark of opinion.

hyp 1) We needed to KA to certain people in High-density populations, for whatever reason...
hyp 2) Driven purely by 'Adam Smith' economics... Greed

Basic members SHOULD carry a proportion of this added/needed(?) burden..and....
Why didn't you just state that Premier Membership was increasing by $10 and leave it at that. No sense in insulting ones intelligence with faulty logic and a convoluted ( yet still nebulus) pricing structure.

Reply by Iris Grayson on 9/23/05 2:24pm
Msg #66989

I have not yet read through all the responses to your news, Harry, and I have two immediate reactions: 1) I am surprised you gave NO advance notice of this to give some of us a chance to convert memberships -- a week or two might have been nice, and 2) if you implement your new ruling, I have no idea if/when I could afford the $89. That's a $50 jump from the one I was already struggling to figure out how to pay.

I DO agree that you are entitled to some compensation from all members -- perhaps you could give new Basic Members a brief trial period so they could get an idea of what value this might be to them -- and then a REASONABLE charge. (I like PAW_Fl's suggestion). I have absolutely no objection to paying a $19 fee for basic membership. I do think you should have just two prices -- one for Basic members and another for Premier -- and NOT on a sliding scale.
I also DO agree the existing and/or future Premier members shouldn't be penalized.

I realize a decision of the type you have made is not an easy one at which to arrive. You need & deserve to make money off this valuable service you provide the many of us who follow the Forum. However, I do hope you will take into account our words.

While my personal financial circumstances shouldn't need to be of any concern to anyone else, I raise them now only to highlight the reason for my delay in upgrading. They are severely curtailed. That reason has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with how much I value this forum and look forward to continuing with it -- and to purchasing a Mojo, as well as any other benefits available.

Nonetheless, at the moment, I don't even know if my Premier membership here would even afford me the benefit of a discount on much-needed E&O insurance (reading a preview of benefits says only "in select states").

In sum, my membership dues are limited to only a very, very few precious dollars at this time now. I would grieve at being precluded from buying into Premier membership by the imposition of such a high buy-in fee.

I do want to say again what I have repeated to you in other past posts: Thank you for all you do, Harry! It's a GREAT forum.

Reply by Tina_MA on 9/25/05 4:53pm
Msg #67262

Since I have been a "Premier Member" from the start of this website, I am happy to take my discount of $20.

It's great to be recognized for my patronage. ;-)

Thanks, Harry!