Posted by Kristina Miller on 4/3/06 9:18am
Msg #110522

A borrower with a plea for help

Hello Notary Rotary!

I am a notary and have been so for about 14 years in West Virginia. I wanted to get some information regarding loan closings. After utilizing the search feature, I found out that WV is an attorney state. I will be re-financing my home and –hopefully- the closing will take place by the end of this month. I feel I should not have to pay $1245.00 for an attorney and would like to have a Notary Signing Agent complete my loan. Now, do not get me wrong, I am not trying to be a cheapo; I am trying to save my family some money by doing my homework. I have a sister that lives in Alabama. She did a refinance last year and her breakdown statement shows: Notary - $195.00. That is a significant difference.

I would like to read this law. I would like to see where it is written in black and white stating West Virginia is an attorney state. I have searched the following web sites and do not know what category this law would be under.

http://www.wvsos.com/notary/WVC29C.htm

http://www.wvsos.com/csr/

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/masterfrm3Banner.cfm

I placed several calls to the WV SOS inquiring about this. They could offer me no information. I could not believe WVSOS referred me to the NNA! I am not a member of the NNA, nor do I intend to be, so I am asking help from fellow Notary Rotary members.

I would appreciate any help you can give.

Thank You,

Kristina Miller

Reply by JD/MD on 4/3/06 10:15am
Msg #110531

Why not have your signing done in a neighboring state that does not require an attorney?

Reply by Cheri Armentrout on 4/3/06 10:16am
Msg #110532

the only thing I can think of is to do a search in your zip and see what comes up. Like Maryland, notaries can work under the supervision of attorneys. Not sure about your state.
$1,245.00??? That's highway robbery!

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 4/3/06 10:30am
Msg #110538

I'm a Signing Agent in VA and soon to be in WV(still waiting

on my commission). I can do the signing for you in VA for a much reduced fee than what you have been quoted. Call me or send me an e-mail and we can talk.

Kimberly

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 4/3/06 10:34am
Msg #110541

Also, in answer to your question, yes WV is an Attorney only

state. A lawyer is involed in the "legal" aspects of it. If that attorney farms out his closings to a Signing Agent, he will charge a higher fee because he has to pay the closing agent their cut. If possible, it would be better to go thru say VA or MD to get your loan because of the fact you don't have to deal with Attorneys or there outragous fees.

Reply by Kristina Miller on 4/3/06 10:49am
Msg #110550

Kkdmiddleton

Do you know what the code, law number is?

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 4/3/06 11:07am
Msg #110561

Re: Kkdmiddleton

No, I called the SOS and they told me, so I didn't bother looking it up.

Reply by Kristina Miller on 4/3/06 10:53am
Msg #110553

Re: I'm a Signing Agent in VA and soon to be in WV(still waiting

"I can do the signing for you in VA for a much reduced fee than what you have been quoted"

Maryland or Virginia would be too far for us to travel. We are in Kanawha county.

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 4/3/06 11:07am
Msg #110559

If you go to this website that I've posted, you should be

able to get the information you've requested. The WV SOS, doesn't really have any involvement because of the fact that it is an attorney only state. www.wvinsurance.gov Hope this helps or you can contact WV State Bar. They should be able to help as well, good luck

Reply by JD/MD on 4/3/06 10:34am
Msg #110540

"Like Maryland, notaries can work under the supervision of attorneys. Not sure about your state."


Maryland notaries can also work without the supervision of an attorney.

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/3/06 10:37am
Msg #110544

to do loan signings?

Reply by JD/MD on 4/3/06 10:39am
Msg #110545



"to do loan signings?"



Yes, Maryland requires a title producers license, not an attorney state.

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/3/06 10:40am
Msg #110546

Got it ....thanks, I think I confused you with MA.

Reply by Les_CO on 4/3/06 10:48am
Msg #110549

You need to tell the title company/lender that you will provide your own attorney for the closing. Then shop around and get the lowest price. Often in so called "Attorney States" the laws prohibiting "lay people" from presenting closings, are not found in notarial law, but in real estate, or unlicensed practice of law statutes. I'm sure you will be able to find an attorney for less than $1200.00.

Reply by Regal1 on 4/3/06 11:33am
Msg #110580

Are any family members associated with: Credit Union, Union Member, Church Member. Good resources for acquiring an attorney.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/3/06 1:47pm
Msg #110630

Not sure if this will help, but I just googled it up and it cites several specific instances of case law. I didn't read through the whole thing.

http://www.wvbar.org/BARINFO/Research/unlawfulprac/93-003.htm

Reply by BP/WV on 4/4/06 9:11am
Msg #110825

I feel for you. This is a statewide issue that has been upsetting borrowers for a while. You are not alone. However, you must understand that the law is the law and it is in place for your protection. The fee that you were quoted most likely includes some title work. I am sure it is not just a closing fee.

West Virginia Law W.Va 33-11A-11[c] states: Title search and examination must be conducted by an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of West Virginia. No title insurance shall be issued until the title insurance company has obtained a title opinion of an attorney licensed to practice law in West Virginia, which is not an employee, agent or owner of the insured bank or its affiliates.

Also, in response to your question regarding the actual WV code regarding notaries conducting real estate closings, I have found the following:

Section 4a, Article 1, chapter 51 of the West Virginia Code


The Committee on Unlawful Practice of The West Virginia State Bar has received a request from an attorney inquiring as to whether or not the preparation of deeds of trust by a bank, and the designation of bank officers as trustees therein, constitutes the unlawful practice of law. Accompanying this inquiry are various copies of deeds of trust that are in use by the Trader's Bank of Spencer, West Virginia. The deeds of trust are pre-printed forms which require the insertion of certain information, including the name and address of the grantor, a description of the property covered by the deed of trust, and information regarding the underlying note obligation. The form contains the printed notation that they were printed by "Banker's System. Inc." The deed of trust form further contains the notation that the instrument was prepared by "Trader's Bank".

Pursuant to the provisions of Section 4a, Article 1, chap- ter 51 of the West Virginia Code of 1931, as amended, the West Virginia Supreme Court, on March 28, 1987, by rule discussed and defined the practice of law in the State of West Virginia in the following terms, in part:

It is essential to the administration of justice and the proper protection of society that only qualified persons duty licensed be permitted to engage in the practice of law. It is harmful to the public interests to permit anyone to represent falsely that he is qualified to perform legal services ...
In general, one is deemed to be practicing law whenever he or it furnishes to another advice or service under circumstances which imply the possession or use of legal knowledge and skill.
More specifically but without purporting to for- mutate a precise and completely comprehensive definition of the practice of law or to prescribe limits to the scope of that activity, one is deemed to be practicing law whenever (1) one undertakes, with or without compensation and whether or not in connection with another activity, to advise another in any matter involving the application of legal principles to facts, purposes or desires; (2) one undertakes, with or without compensation and whether or not in connection with another activity, to prepare for another legal instruments of any character; or (3) one undertakes, with or without compensation and whether or not in connection with another activity, to represent the interests of another before any judicial tribunal or officer, or to represent the interest of another before any executive or administrative tribunal, agency or officer otherwise than in the presentation of facts, figures or factual conclusions as distinguished from legal conclusions in respect to such facts and figures.

you will find a plethora of information by following this link:

http://www.wvbar.org/BARINFO/Research/unlawfulprac/

Good luck.


Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. The above information should not be used as legal advice, as it is just my own opinion.