Posted by Beth/MD on 4/8/06 9:10am
Msg #112119

An earlier post prompts this question.

How many of you do not notarize the package during the signing? Do you take the docs with you to notarize later?

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/8/06 9:13am
Msg #112122

If I need a gas mask, I won't hang around to do it and I will get it done at home, if a dog or other animal is snacking on my ankles I won't do it. It has to be normal conditions for me to whip out my embosser.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 4/8/06 9:14am
Msg #112125

I prefer to do it while I'm there. Don't want to run into the question "why aren't you stamping it now"

Reply by Beth/MD on 4/8/06 9:15am
Msg #112126

I pretty much follow the same rules. But I recently met another MD notary that says he never notarizes during the appt. He takes everything back to his office and does it then.

Reply by cmd_NH on 4/8/06 9:17am
Msg #112130

I notarize as I go through the docs and the BO signs, but there was one occasion that I waited. The signing took place at night in the middle of a blizzard and we had to sign sitting in my truck...three across the front seat. My brief case was on the lap of the BO sitting in the middle. It was cramped and hard to see well with the truck light, so I just had them sign, checked to make sure they didn't miss anything and notarized when I got home.

Reply by Teddog_CO on 4/8/06 9:14am
Msg #112124

You should always notarize the pkg in front of the BWR's . Never notarize the docs later!

Best to You Beth

Reply by LawrenceOK on 4/8/06 9:15am
Msg #112127

You won't catch me doing that.

Reply by Beth/MD on 4/8/06 9:16am
Msg #112128

I think it should be done during the appt. What if a signature was missed? It's easier to have that taken care of there and not have to "go back" or worse...send the docs with a missing signature.

Reply by Teddog_CO on 4/8/06 9:17am
Msg #112129

Wow! Do Ya think we could of posted any faster!! LOL n/m

Reply by BP/WV on 4/8/06 9:20am
Msg #112131

I rarely notarize during the appointment. I do it when I get back to the office. Ive always done it this way. No one has ever asked me why I am not stamping.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 4/8/06 9:26am
Msg #112134

I have had people ask why I don't need their thumprint on certain docs. People must be really suspicious out here, I guess. It's just easier for me to do it while I'm there.

Reply by Traci/MD on 4/8/06 9:32am
Msg #112137

I do both depends on My time.

Reply by LilyMD on 4/8/06 9:35am
Msg #112138

I will notarize at the "end" of the appt. if time permits. This way, I can make sure docs have been signed or initialed and nothing forgotten. However, sometimes this isn't possible. Especially, EOM, so I notarize everything back at my office.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/8/06 12:38pm
Msg #112191

For those of you who don't notarize at the table

What exactly are you doing instead of notarizing?

I guess I must do things differently than a lot of people on here because if I wasn't filling out the notary sections I'd just be sitting and staring at the walls a lot during the signing., I give the borrower a few pages at a time and then flip through the stack and fill out the notary section. When they're signing a notarized document the notary section is almost always completed when I hand it to them. And even with that method there's usually a good amount of sitting and staring at the walls after all the notary sections are complete.

The only time I don't stamp at the table is if it's an awkward setup and I'm working off of my lap and there's no flat surface to apply the stamp. And even then I fill out everything else in the notary section, just put the stamp on later. And that situation rarely happens.

It seems to me that if you don't have time to complete the notarizations during the signing, you're probably giving way more detailed explanations of everything than you need to.

Reply by Traci/MD on 4/8/06 1:03pm
Msg #112198

Re: For those of you who don't notarize at the table

I would think everyone has a method....
Once I get the ID information out of the way.I start with the RTC. Then the HUD, the note, The Til & Then I start Flip through pages with a brief description. They sign... On a good day this is over in 30 mintues. on a bad day .............I could still be there!!!lol

Reply by BP/WV on 4/8/06 1:34pm
Msg #112203

Re: For those of you who don't notarize at the table

As I mentioned, I rarely notarize documents at a closing table. This is not something I recommend, for it leaves a larger margin for error. However, this is my method that I have been following for a very long time. I used to notarize at the table when I first became a NSA. After several years under my belt, I began notarizing and stamping when I returned to the office. I feel this is a good method for me and I have never had to return to a home due to an error on my part. If I notarize after an appointment, I can concentrate on the borrower(s) signing. I watch them sign and I watch for any errors and strikeouts, and make sure the dates are correct. I inspect each page and then I turn it face down and proceed to the next.

Because I do not notarize at a closing table does not mean I am over explaining the documents. I simply point out required information and then show the initial, date and signature lines.

The State of West Virginia does not require I affix my seal before a signer; therefore, I do not.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 4/8/06 10:45am
Msg #112166

I prefer to notarize the legal documents at the signing table. Through experience I have found that including the signers in the notarial process keeps the signing interesting. Signers are remarkably patient and are usually grateful to get the break. As I get older I also find that I make less mistakes if I enlist the help of the Signers to sequentially review my notarized documents for errors

That's not a hard fast rule with me though and if the house is intolerable I will point & sign then leave and finish the notarizations in a more healthy place.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/8/06 10:54am
Msg #112169

This begs another question!

If you notarize at the office when do you administer the oath for docs requiring jurats. I don't know about other states but California is a "ceremony state" and requires that the oath be given.

Reply by Beth/MD on 4/8/06 10:58am
Msg #112172

Re: I hadn't thought of that. n/m

Reply by Mung/CA on 4/8/06 11:04am
Msg #112173

I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

if there is a jurat in the docs. I too notarize at the table however, on more than a few occasions I have done it after the signing.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/8/06 11:09am
Msg #112174

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

That's actually a brilliant move Mung. By doing it at the beginning it solemnizes the whole process. I like that. I suspect that by giving the oath at the beginning it makes the signing a whole lot more serious and business-like.

Reply by Beth/MD on 4/8/06 11:26am
Msg #112178

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

I think I'm going to start doing this, too. I suspect it makes everything move quicker because, as Charles state, it gives the signing a serious and business-like tone.

Reply by hcampersFL on 4/8/06 11:36am
Msg #112181

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

I always put them under oath at the beginning.

I do stampings both ways. If I'm in a time crunch and have another appt. I will do it after. If I don't have any other appt.'s and it doesn't smell or things aren't crawling around I will do it as we go.
Don't forget even if you don't stamp at that time always double check for signatures and initials before you leave. Don't want to have to go back. Learned this the hard way.
b.

Reply by PAW on 4/8/06 11:49am
Msg #112184

In FL you MUST notarize at the table

Florida Statutes section 117.107(9) provides that:

A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if the person is not in the presence of the notary public at the time the signature is notarized. Any notary public who violates this paragraph is guilty of a civil infraction, punishable by penalty not exceeding $5,000, and that conduct constitutes malfeasance and misfeasance in the conduct of official duties. It is no defense to the civil infraction specified in this paragraph that the notary public acted without intent to defraud. A notary public who violates this paragraph with the intent to defraud is guilty of violating s. 117.105. Violation of section 117.105 constitutes a third-degree felony for fraudulently taking an acknowledgment or making a false notary certificate.

There is no exception to the presence requirement!

(FL Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries, 2001, pg. 28)

Reply by hcampersFL on 4/8/06 11:55am
Msg #112185

Re: In FL you MUST notarize at the table

Oh Sh-t. I better straighten up my ways.
B.

Reply by PAW on 4/8/06 12:03pm
Msg #112186

LOL!

The NotPolice will be after you. Better look out. (j/k)

Reply by lulu on 4/8/06 2:22pm
Msg #112206

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

But the oath is administered to swear the truthfulness of the document they are signing. How can they take an oath before they read it? I love the idea of making things a little more serious at the get-go but I can't quite rationalize the oath at the beginning.

Reply by PAW on 4/8/06 2:41pm
Msg #112208

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

Because they swear the what they are about do to, sign and agree to are factual. Just like in a deposition or court, you take the oath before giving testimony. The jurat is the certification by the notary that the signer was placed under oath and they swear the contents are true and accurate by virtue of them placing their signature on the document. It doesn't hurt to get a verbal response for each document to reinforce the fact the they are under oath.

Reply by lulu on 4/8/06 3:41pm
Msg #112215

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

'An affirmation is a solemn and formal declaration or asseveration in the nature of an oath that a statement, or series of statements, is true.'

'For administering a written oath (basically used to certify that the signer has sworn that the document contents are true, often used for documents such as affidavits and certified copies of documents) or a verbal oath (generally used in video-taped testimony or swearing in of public officials). 'In the instance of testimony or swearing in, the person is taking an oath that they will not lie. They are in control of that ahead of time.

*In my opinion, the verbal oath that we administer cannot be sworn to until one sees what content they are signing as to the truthfulness, since they themselves did not initiate the documents. I do not admin this oath after each jurat but once at the end of the signing aptmt.
Just another point of view.

Reply by PAW on 4/8/06 3:51pm
Msg #112216

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

May I ask what you are quoting? Not that I disagree with it, just another way to do things. The discussion of when to give the oath has been going on for at least 6 years that I know of.

Reply by lulu on 4/8/06 4:47pm
Msg #112228

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

I forgot you were in Fl, I did a search for 'California Notarial Oath'. I didn't want to limit my
response to the sheltered world of Iowa law. haha
I'm hoping that the links that I am posting are in no way a competition to this site and they
are not the official sos of california.

http://www.pronotaries.com/services.htm
http://www.onealproductions.com/fees.htm
Additionally, my Iowa Handbook says, 'An oath can be administered as follows:
"Do you swear that the statements in this document are true?"

Reply by PAW on 4/8/06 5:46pm
Msg #112243

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

You must take into consideration that most notary manuals issued by the state are geared toward the normal and typical notary duties. That is, one or two documents at any given time. However, when you're doing a loan signing, there may be anywhere from one or two to 30 to 40 depending on the lender and how many loans are involved.

The point is, that the signers need to be placed under oath before they sign the document swearing to the facts therein. So, even the manuals technically have the oath misplaced by having the signer sign then take the oath that they swear to the facts. It's their signature that is the testament to the oath. It's your certificate attesting to the fact that the oath was given and the signers swore (or affirmed) to the facts.

Our manual conveniently leaves out the "signer signing the document" when discussing "Notarizing: Step by Step". But, in the section on what constitutes giving the oath or affirmation, it states:

"A notarization requiring an oath begins with the administration of an oath or affirmation. The courts have held that there should be a verbal exchange between the notary and the document signer in which the signer indicates that he or she is taking an oath. An oath similar to one administered in court by a judge or bailiff would be sufficient. Or, you may simply ask, “Do you swear (or affirm) that the information contained in this document is true?” After receiving an affirmative answer, you must complete a proper notarial certificate indicating that an oath or affirmation was taken."

Again, an absence of when the signer actually places their signature on the document.

So, imo, all in all, I don't that one way is wrong or correct, as long as the signer is placed under oath and swears or affirms to the contents of the document.

Reply by lulu on 4/8/06 6:08pm
Msg #112248

Re: I always place the bo under oath @ the beginning

No by all means, I don't think it's correct or incorrect either way. I think it is as with so many things, there is room for interpretation. I was only speaking of my common practices and thought pattern on why I do it the way I do. Isn't that what diversity is all about and forums....to hear how someone else has interpreted or what their best practice is to help us all. I don't know if anyone is interested but something else I do..........In knowing that the administering of an oath effects the validity of the notarization I have a disclosure at the end of each signing that I have the borrowers sign. This is my proof that they have been made aware of my role, that I have not advised them and also that the oath has been administered.
I'm not sure that it would hold up in court but it's my best shot at cya.

Reply by NCLisa on 4/8/06 12:49pm
Msg #112194

As an escrow officer and a real estate paralegal I used to notarize everything back at my desk. Most of the reason was that is was a royal pain to carry your stamp around the office, and if you got side tracked, you may not find it for a few hours.

I originally notarized things at home when I started doing mobile signing agent work. Then I realized it really saved me time if I just notarized them at the closing. I've put my docs in a certain order for years...hud, note, payment notice, impound acct info, til, dt, all notarized docs, junk docs, rtc, 1003. When the borrowers are initialing all the pages of the dt, I'm filling in the dates & names on the other acks. They sign, I sign and stamp. Check docs at the end. I either go home and do my fax backs, or go straight to fed ex with the package. No more spending my free time messing with loan docs.

Reply by ColleenCA on 4/8/06 2:05pm
Msg #112204

Re: Always at the table n/m

Reply by lulu on 4/8/06 5:02pm
Msg #112232

I have found it nice to get it on done while with the borrower but yet I like that final check to be done back at the office. I guess I got to thinking that filling out the notary info and stamping is not only taking extra time when the borr would just as soon be getting on with their day and I like my final look through with the borr to be focused on their signatures and dating etc., not my notarization.

Reply by MichiganAl on 4/8/06 2:49pm
Msg #112210

It's so much more efficient doing it at the table

You've got idle time anyway. I notarize everything at the table, take the three minutes to review the docs at the table, package it up in front of the borrower, write down the tracking number on my order sheet, and I'm done. Why make more work at the end of the day?