Posted by TitleGalCA on 4/8/06 4:48pm
Msg #112229

My no-sign today

You know, I don't do nearly as many signings as you all because of my day job.

Here's the deal...and I'm starting to think it's "me". I had another no-sign today. Drove up the gorgeous Ca coast to Santa Barbara this morning to meet with a couple who are refi-ing a second home.

Interesting place...very Spanish on the outside and an old Spanish door to enter. Walk into flag stones within the home (that's different) and about 3 dogs, a parakeet and several kids. The skylights give light and the stonework creates a nice open feeling. It was pretty California Cool.

Anyhow, we get right into the package (it's not a big refi dollar wise and I have 3 places to notarize...the docs are about a half inch thick). The Mister takes one look at the estimated closing statement and nearly has a coronary, so is on the phone to the LO right away. Complains about "in the stratosphere" fees....and I hope he isn't talking about mine.

I sort of get the vibe that this is another no-sign. Why is this happening to me so much? I do all of 5 to 7 signings a month and it seems like 25% of them are no-signs lately. We are to meet Monday morning at my (escrow officer) office to finish after they review the docs all weekend.

I hope it's the market and not the notary!

Two questions: 1) The BO told me he had no Right to Cancel as this was his second home. I didn't know this - non-owner occupied = no RTC? and 2) Do any of you feel like you failed because the BO didn't sign? I'm feeling bad at this point with my 25% failure rate.

Thanks for comments!!

Reply by John McDermott on 4/8/06 4:52pm
Msg #112230

non owener occs have no RTC. it funds as soon as it signs. as far as no signs you should still get paid the same amount as if they signed. I think this come from l/o lying to there customers

Reply by cmd_NH on 4/8/06 5:15pm
Msg #112236

Don't let this get you down TG. It's not your fault. You don't have control over what the LO tells them before you get there. It would be nice if they got the correct information before we arrive, but most of the time (in my experience) things are not as they expect. I stress the RTC when it applies and usually that takes care of it. I have only had to go back once for a re-sign and got paid for both trips. In cases where there is no RTC, there's not much we can do. We still deserve to get paid. Not our problem if they have been lied to or given the runaround by the LO.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/8/06 5:18pm
Msg #112237

yes, cmd...

The BO looked at me and said..."why don't they send the estimated closing statement before they send you?"

I had no answer for him. I can only look to Renee Kovacs (of this board) who has so well explained why things are they way they are with lenders.

Our lives would be SO MUCH simpler if these things were done before we get to someone's home and add another $150-$200 to the HUD.

Reply by cmd_NH on 4/8/06 5:24pm
Msg #112240

Re: yes, cmd...

I'm not sure, but I thought they are supposed to get the estimated closing statement before closing. In my experience, it's about a 50/50 chance that this happens.

We strive to be as professional as possible especially since we are usually the only human contact that the borrowers deal with. It sure is frustrating when the LO's do these things that make US look like idiots. And to top it off...we usually get the blame....from both sides.

Reply by lulu on 4/8/06 5:35pm
Msg #112241

Re: yes, cmd...

I don't think we get the blame, in the eyes of the borrower anyway. If we make our role clear and they know we are the local messenger, they understand that the figures are not something within our control. Many times when I get there with the docs the bo is pulling out either his notes or a copy of something like the good faith estimate that has been sent to them before I meet with them. yes that is nice because they already have accepted the terms that have been sent to them and it's just a quick review to see that certain figures are the same on the docs I bring and away we go. It makes me wonder sometimes when the lo has not educated, elaborated or sent some preliminary info like the good faith estimate, if they are trying to pull one over on the bo.

Reply by Cindy Dorman on 4/8/06 5:54pm
Msg #112244

Re: yes, cmd...

Yes lulu it does make you wonder sometimes. I also make my role clear when I arrive, but in some cases it is the messenger that gets the raw end of the borrower.

Reply by hcampersFL on 4/8/06 6:00pm
Msg #112246

Re: yes, cmd...

Title Gal,
I have felt the same way as you when I had a no-sign.
After giving it some thought I realize that this is how the process works. If the BO isn't comfortable that everything was disclosed to them ahead of time, nothing you can do about it. They will think somethings fishy.
Don't put the blame on yourself it is to be laid at the LO feet. When I have a successful signing 90 % of the time the BR's had good communication with there LO. They had everything explained to them and already new the answers to the "obvious" questions.
You did nothing to cause this no-sign. Shake it off!
Beverly

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/8/06 6:06pm
Msg #112247

Thanks so much, Beverly! n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/8/06 5:57pm
Msg #112245

Yes they are

***but I thought they are supposed to get the estimated closing statement before closing***

Sadly it is usually our (the notary) handing it to them. Like I said, those folks who have real life/real time experience with the lenders (Renee Kovacs is the only one I know of) can explain best.

See thread 33325 for more detail.

Reply by GF_CA on 4/8/06 6:11pm
Msg #112250

Re: Yes they are

One time I had one Borrower looking the HUD and says " Notary Fee $450???????" and then look at me sir this are not my feeeeeeeeee. Also my last three signing I felt so bad, especially those two old couple, the LO told them that their loan suppose to be interest only fix for five years, but to me suppose to change EVERY YEAR. I suggest to call the LO and he did, well.....he told them buy phone that they need make the same payment for 5 years. As a realtor I always tell my client my fiends everyone I know “ when you decide to refinance ask for the HUD”

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/8/06 6:15pm
Msg #112251

You know what GF?

I cant explain that phenominon!! (sp)

Believe me, there's no extra funds going into escrow that are not accounted for. I think we all have to look at the final HUD before we make assumptions about the estimated closing statement in California.

Think of it like this...California needs lots of room...we need wiggle room for estimated closing statements because GOD knows what might hit us at the end. It might be an earthquake. It might be a mudslide. It might be....Paris Hilton.

Okay, I'm reaching here, but you get my drift.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/8/06 6:18pm
Msg #112253

There are as many lousy Lo's as there are lousy notaries

From my perspective I see this all the time. The LO is trying to maximize their commissions on the back of the BO and then blames the notary for blowing it. Because of the contracting market in loans many LOs have become more aggressive in trying to sell questionable loans. This is the reason that I do not take any jobs where my notary payment is contingent on the closing of the loan and as an LO I don't deal with the bottom of the market. There is plenty of business in the upper end and much less competition since few can handle the altitude as well as the attitude. Don't take it personally when a loan doesn't close, the bottom line is that the LO didn't do his job.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/8/06 6:24pm
Msg #112255

Thank you so much Charles. It makes us feel better! n/m

Reply by cmd_NH on 4/8/06 6:30pm
Msg #112256

Exactly! Well said as usual Charles. n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 4/8/06 6:49pm
Msg #112260

Same thing is going on down here. LO's not doing their job. I had two no signs this week. One I headed off at the pass by going over the settlement statement over the phone (not a practice I do but 25% of the time), the other one, I sat at the table for 45 minutes while the BO and LO yelled at each other on the phone before it went south.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/8/06 6:52pm
Msg #112261

***the other one, I sat at the table for 45 minutes while the BO and LO yelled at each other on the phone before it went south.***

My problem too. As far as I'm concerned I earned my $150, regardless of the outcome. God only knows how to change the system, I sure as hell don't.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/8/06 10:32pm
Msg #112286

whew...don't take this the wrong way TG but I'm glad I'm not sitting in the sinking ship all alone. Just walked in the door from my no-sign and was feeling down in the dirt so reading your post and the replies at least made me feel a bit better about myself. I was walking the thin blue line between feeling like a failure AND happy as snot that the borrower elected not to sign. I dunno what these LO's are thinking but selling that loan would have been as easy as trying to sell all of you on a $30 signing, NOT! My borrower didn't even know the package was being delivered to him so you can imagine his shock when he got a look at the HUD. They were a charming couple though and I learned new things so as always it was an interesting trip. I thank you for your just-in-time post, onward and upward all!

Reply by Renee Kovacs on 4/9/06 5:47am
Msg #112303

Re: No-Sign Guilt and the Innocent Bystander =)

It is ABSOLUTELY not ANY reflection on any little part of you, T/G my friend! It sure can be deflating, though. Since you're seeing a lot of no-signs - look for the pattern! Track the broker's offices that your loans come out of - you'll no doubt see the pattern surface there. Then, when you get another call to close one out of that office, you can make a 'more informed' decision about payment policy, or going over the terms & fees before you hit the road.

You might remember - I don't charge 'trip fees'. I rarely get signing refusals, so for me it's not a problem at all. I DID, however, begin having a problem w/ a particular broker and in fact, I did allow it to continue longer than I should have. After the 5th or 6th refusal out of about 10 from the same broker - I let T/C know when the 11th assignment came that I would require full fee on a refusal coming out of this mtg broker's office. I know the T/C had no issue (they told me they bill broker for that) but the broker refused to agree to pay, and I wasn't called anymore - no problem! (Remember, the mtg broker is the one you'll see on pg 3 of the 1003 - not necessarily the LENDER. Track the broker office, even the L/O's name, sometimes it's just one L/O from a particular office.)

The AVERAGE/TYPICAL loan officer is a pretty hungry guy, in my experience. Rare is the one who's really making it, especially in times like these. They're also usually pretty young, not a lot of life experience, and have their heads filled with pipe dreams of big easy bucks. They can be so stressed that I feel sorry for them - we all have the right to earn a living, or TRY to. Depending on how savy the borrower is, and how much they might want or need the loan - sometimes those L/O's manage to squeeze in another car payment or cable bill or whatever onto that Hud at the last minute. The successful L/O's don't HAVE to max out every single loan (fees) and don't play this way.

The GFE is supposed to be sent to the borrower within 3 days from the application date. When the app. is done via the internet or phone, it is tracked by the date the credit report is pulled. Sometimes I would imagine the GFE isn't sent - MANY TIMES BORROWERS DON'T READ IT. There is OFTEN another GFE in closing pkg, and that doesn't mean an initial one wasn't done or wasn't sent.

There are limits to the total amount of 'discretionary' type fees that can be charged (going over those limits triggers a whole 'nuther set of rules/laws; one of which is a requirement of a disclosure to be sent 5 days prior to close that basically say "if you take this loan at these fees, you're an idiot." It couldn't BE more direct. The majority of lenders flat-out will not do these "Sect. 32" loans, either - looked at like asking for predatory lawsuit, despite the disclosures.

So. You/we can't save people from themselves, and you/we aren't responsible for the L/O's actions. Borrowers often don't own up to the whole truth, either! They are often embarressed, stressed, maybe financially desperate, possibly lied or misrepresented something and have THAT stuck in their conscience, don't want to look 'ignorant' to you, the L/O, or their spouse, and they will blame an L/O quicker than they accept blame themselves. In our position as S/A, and during these hard economic times, I think we witness a lot of the 'worst' of human nature, from BOTH sides (L/O's and Borrowers). Since WE sit with the borrower, we tend to hear only one side of the story - and we need to remember there are 3 sides to every story. Sometimes it's just not what it might look like. Remembering that and remaining neutral - even within our private assumptions - is more reasonable and realistic.

N/O/O = no rescission NECESSARY, but lender can choose to give ANY loan a RTC. RTC protects the Primary Residence by law - providing anything beyond the law is a courtesy. That's why there's no RTC on a purchase - it's not YET their residence.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/9/06 7:33am
Msg #112309

As always Renee hasn't let us down...a sincere TY n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/10/06 6:22pm
Msg #112580

Re: No-Sign Guilt and the Innocent Bystander =)

***The AVERAGE/TYPICAL loan officer is a pretty hungry guy, in my experience***

Wow! I get it now, Renee. Nothing like the real-life examples to get that point across about the roles/positions in the lending world.

Yep I get it. And the guilt thing is interesting...not mine, but theirs. My no-sign showed up today to finish the signing and it was bad-loan-officer this and that, everyone's fault but his....yet, it was the BO who had to RUSH this $150K refi on the second home and HAD to have it funded by tomorrow...Hm.

You are right on, as usual.

Reply by patricia on 4/9/06 10:14am
Msg #112329

I have very few no signs, if I am getting the package from the lender or title company I will
give the loan rep a call and ask them if the borrowers know what is coming and are they aware if they will owe any money to close. They usually sound very professional and concerned about their clients. Some dont want to deal with the borrowers when it comes
to the argument that occurs when the borrowers owe a big amount of money to close the
escrow, some just cannot be found, but somehow I have managed to get through those.
Have not had any no signs so far this year , but do remember one last summer. Borrower was
the problem, not anyone else.

Reply by Jason on 4/9/06 1:45pm
Msg #112359

I review terms on phone before leaving house

The % of "fail at table" due to LO lies got so high I made a new policy:

Before I print docs, I call brwr and review rate, total $# for lender fees, and ppp terms. If LO has lied, I tell brwr to call LO to get "typos" corrected.

Not one fail since I started doing this.