Posted by Joshua Basil on 4/3/06 12:14pm
Msg #110589

Need some input

I'm Pretty sure I disagree with this but I though I would ask the opinion of the masses.

I have been contacted by a law firm that deals with Trusts and Living Wills.

They are marketing to notaries in there area to "advertise" for them.

What they are asking:

"All that is required of you is:

At the completion of a notarization assignment – ask the client if they have a Living Trust
If they don’t have one – ask if they would like to receive a Free Living Trust Information packet
If they would – then email to us (at: [e-mail address]) their name, mailing address,
phone number … and … your name (so that you can receive credit for the referral)

After we mail the information packet to the individual that you refer to us, we will make the follow-up

contact (including offering a Free consultation) … and … if the individual should decide to establish

their Living Trust through our firm, we will send you a check for $100. "

Now I know they are not asking you to provide any information that you did not receive permission for however the conflict of interest may arise with the entity that hired the notary to complete the closing.


Is this a good chance to turn some extra profit or simply a moral disaster?

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/3/06 12:17pm
Msg #110593

Ummmm...let us assume that you sell Avon part time....

would you consider it professional to finish the closing and then hand out the latest campaign book with your phone number listed? Please, totally unprofessional to hard sell a captive audience. Why screw up whatever rapport you have worked hard to maintain?

Reply by Joshua Basil on 4/3/06 12:34pm
Msg #110597

Re: Ummmm...let us assume that you sell Avon part time....

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking, however what about non-loan notary work, People coming into office and such..........Also do you think it would be worth while to simply act as a referral service, not necessarily from closings but any person we come in contact with whom might be interested? It really comes down to odds the odds are that you would have to ask a lot of people to get a few to go all the way, so it would probably be a lot of work for a little pay.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 4/3/06 12:55pm
Msg #110605

yep yep...remember...if it sounds too good to be true... n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/3/06 1:32pm
Msg #110620

Re: Ummmm...let us assume that you sell Avon part time....

If I had a notary come to me to sign loan paperwork and then got a sales pitch at the end of it, you can bet that I would call my loan rep and complain about it. Ethical implications aside, you could be setting yourself up to lose future loan signing business if you did something like this.

Reply by Colonel_IA on 4/3/06 1:05pm
Msg #110614

The Living Trust referral business between lawyers and nonlawyers came up in Iowa a number of years ago. IN IOWA the IOWA Supreme Court ruled that any money given by a lawyer to someone who was not a lawyer was considered to be splitting a legal fee and therefore illegal since only lawyers could receive a legal fee. The Iowa Supreme Court did not care what the money was called (referral fee, finder's fee, etc.) the court considered it to be a legal fee. I do know that in some states it is legal for nonlawyers to be involved in the Living Trust. So you need to research your state's laws.

Reply by lulu on 4/3/06 8:15pm
Msg #110739

Colonel, I am also in Iowa. I would be interested in any link or such that you may have about that case a number of years ago. I've been doing some research on 'Bankruptcy Processing' as it is called. An independent would be hired for a fee per petition to do the data entry from some client intake forms then send it back to the attorney to finalize and submit the pdf by electronic means to the courts for filing. What is your opinion on this? Would you consider this to fall under the same category as the Living Trust item? Sure would seem like it to me.

Reply by Colonel_IA on 4/4/06 12:52am
Msg #110773

It's been over ten years ago now and there were a number of cases. At the time articles were in the newspapers and financial planning publications about the revocable living trust business. Many Iowa certified financial planners were in or considering getting into it since it was permitted in other states. Some insurance agents got in big trouble for completing fill-in-the-blank trust forms for clients. The Iowa Supreme Court considered that the unauthorized practice of law. I don't know enough about bankruptcy processing to have an informed opinion. Would the independent have any contact with the client? If there was no client contact then how would bankruptcy processing differ from the work of a legal secretary preparing wills, trusts, artciles of incorporation, etc.?

Reply by lulu on 4/4/06 11:28am
Msg #110874

See there is the fine line. One supposedly can follow up with the attorney's client for any clarification stating that you are calling and asking representing the attorney. You know I could see an attorney's secretary calling on his behalf to talk to a client. I just wonder if when one is independently contracted by the attorney instead of being his employee, if that is a gray area that might fall under upl. This one company is training processors to set up a google campaign to get the clients and then find an attorney to handle the case. I have since found the opinion to be that that is working without an attorney. Once you take some basic information and find them an attorney you are to solicit the attorney to use your services as a petition preparer. Just found quite a few similarities in the Trust situation you have described and looking for your input.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/3/06 1:35pm
Msg #110623

Joshua, you got the email, I see

Don't fall for it. It's a cheapo way for Attorneys to *use* us for referrals and it's not acceptable for impartial notaries in a real estate transaction to pitch something else. Unethical, IMO.

Reply by Joshua Basil on 4/3/06 5:46pm
Msg #110687

Re: Joshua, you got the email, I see

Yeah that's pretty much the path I was taking with this, I was wondering about non loan related notary work, but all said and done it seams like If I get lucky maybe 1 in every 50 people I speak to may go all the way, so to make $100 for every 50 people I speak with...lots of work for a little bit of pay.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/3/06 6:23pm
Msg #110695

Re: Joshua, you got the email, I see...Tacky. n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 4/3/06 6:21pm
Msg #110694

Re: Need some input...Very unprofessional/not a sales person n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/3/06 7:55pm
Msg #110736

Re: Need some input. One additional thought

Usually in your signing docs you have a document regarding privacy. Since you are a subcontractor in the chain of signing I would submit that you are also responsible to maintain the privacy of the borower as the borrower wishies and to do otherwise may cause you some trouble.