Posted by Anonymous on 4/18/06 10:48am
Msg #114168

Non borrowing spouse

I got a call late thursday to do a signing on Good Friday. I received the docs and noticed that the borrower is married. When I called to confirm, I asked her if her spouse would available to sign and she said "no, he has nothing to do with this loan." I left it at that and called the title company...BUT, since it was Good Friday, no one was there. So, I proceeded just as my instructions stated.

I just got a call from the title company informing me that I MUST go back out and get the NOBS to sign the NOBS required docs.

Am I entitled to another trip fee? Do you think I was in error?

I knew better, and I should've just had him sign, but I was secong guessing myself.

TIA

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 4/18/06 10:50am
Msg #114169

I wouldn't charge another trip fee. You knew the NOBS was required to sign the docs and, in my opinion, should have been able to let the borrower know why the NOBS had to sign. I'd just go get the docs signed and chalk the second trip up to experience.

Reply by Roger_OH on 4/18/06 11:17am
Msg #114170

You should not have "left it at that". You knew the NOBS needed to sign certain docs, but didn't - so this trip is on your dime to do what you already should have.

Reply by HARRY_PA on 4/18/06 11:21am
Msg #114174

I agree and disagree. While we know better, why should it be the responsibility of the sa to correct the errors of the title co and lender. With $3 gas, perhaps a trip fee would be reasonable unless it is a special cliient.

Reply by LarryTN on 4/18/06 11:24am
Msg #114177

I think I would have postponed the signing until the spouse was avaiable, because in my state it is law that the spouse sign certain documents regardless of what the borrower says or who is listed on them. I also would have had the borrower call her LO in the meantime.

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/18/06 11:32am
Msg #114180

many times I get a pkg for a couple, non-borrowing spouse. I know what the spouse has to sign for my state and often they do not the n.b. on the rtc. I always have them sign it because that's how it is here. It's imperitive that you know what docs she/he needs to sign for your state.
Maybe the SA dropped the ball, but we should know enough what to sign. I would not charge a trip fee.

Reply by janCA on 4/18/06 11:58am
Msg #114193

Not cut and dried

Was the spouse listed on any of the docs as on the signature line? Was he on the DOT? Why would the notary have to second-guess this? Exactly what docs besides the DOT, TIL, RTC would she have NBS to sign? All lenders and TC's do not have the NBS sign the same docs. It's very subjective. She could have had NBS sign the "regular" legals, but then would she still have to go back out and have NBS sign the other docs that that TC/lender want him/her to sign because that's what they consider to be the legal. I just don't think it's cut and dried.

Reply by Anonymous on 4/18/06 3:02pm
Msg #114260

No Sig line for NOBS anywhere and name not on DOT either n/m

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/18/06 3:15pm
Msg #114262

Re: No Sig line for NOBS anywhere and name not on DOT either

It is state specific. If you know your laws, then there should be no question where the NOBS must sign. However, if unsure, always call the SA/TC to let them know and ask them what you should do. I've always had both spouses present in a signing because of AL laws. It could have been overlooked. My case was the similar, my hubby bought the house before we were married and the re-fi had only his name on it, no one knew at the TC that he got married, things had to be changed last minute before the closing. Better to be informed and double check before you go out. It saves another trip out on your dime.

Reply by NCNotary on 4/18/06 11:56am
Msg #114192

The important information missing is whether the spouse was named on the DOT and if there was a signature line for him. If this was present, then you owe the title co. to finish the signing. If he was not named on the DOT, then it is not your place to determine who should sign the docs. Even though we know the law, we are NOT attorneys and can only deal with the situation before us, not require anything not requested by title.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 4/18/06 12:04pm
Msg #114194

It would help if we knew Anon's state... but

in Florida, if the loan is on the borrower's homestead property and the borrower is married, then the spouse must sign at least the Mortgage, TIL and RTC. Some loans with Arbitration Agreements also require that the AA be signed as well. However, any NSA with experience will have the NOBS sign at least the Mortgage, TIL and RTC absent instructions from the SS or TC. I still call to verify with the SS or TC, but anon posted that s/he could not get in touch with the TC. Therefore, if anon were in FL, anon should have had the NOBS sign the above three documents if the property was the borrower's home and the borrower let anon know that the borrower is married.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 4/18/06 12:13pm
Msg #114200

Anon is in CA, new feature on this site give the state

following the name.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 4/18/06 12:48pm
Msg #114215

Thanks, Charles! I didn't see it b/c anon's addy was long n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/18/06 12:28pm
Msg #114204

The docs to be signed by NBS is NOT state specific

It IS state specific as to if a NBS, who is
NOT in title, has an interest in the property by virtue of
being married to the bwr .
If state law gives the NBS an interest in the PIQ, then
the NBS needs to sign the MTG/DOT to make thier rights in
the property subject to the lien of the MTG/DOT. In that case, other
dox needed to be signed by NBS are as reqd by RESPA and the
lender.
If there is a TIL, NBS should sign. Any sig on a TIL acts as a receipt as
any person with an interst in the PIQ must receive a copy of the TIL.
As to the RTC, again , sig acts a a receipt as anyone with an interest
in PIQ is entitled to 3 business day right to cancel and must receive
2 copies of RTC form and TIL (if there is one) to start the 3 days running.
Additional dox, (compliance, arbitration, etc. ) are up to lender.
That said, if there is a NBS not mentioned on dox and it is a
principal residence AND if I can not reach anyone, I have NBS sign
MTG( and any riders), RTC , TIL (all required) and compliance and arbitration (can't hurt)
NEVER have NBS sign note (loan agreement for a HELOC) or 1003, because
then they are no longer a NBS.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 4/18/06 12:45pm
Msg #114213

This is a case of us needing to see the signing instructions

before we can offer an opinion on if you should return for free or not. In CA, a married person can apply for credit or re-fi property in their own name provided the spouse is not listed on title, it's not community property or several other conditions (I have property that is in my own name before I was married the second time, and I can do whatever I want, because my wife is not on the title) But since we are not attorneys and do not know what to do except by the instructions included with the package.

If the NOBS's name was anywhere in the instructions, or on any document to be signed. then this needs to be done again on your nickel as you did not follow instructions.
When you said that you noticed the BO was married, then I must conclude that the spouses name was listed somewhere on the docs or instructions. I know it can happen and I only have a couple of years experience in this field, but I have never seen a title company screw this up yet although I know it does happen. I have signed a lot of loans where there was a NOBS.

Reply by Anonymous on 4/18/06 3:13pm
Msg #114261

UPDATE

Title company just contacted me to tell me that spouse should have signed a Spousal Waiver. This waiver was not in the package I originally had the wife signed. It has now been faxed to me and I am to have the NOBS sign. I did not ask for a trip fee NOR did the title company offer.

The NOBS was NOT listed on any doc. His name was NOWHEREin docs or on title company instructions. DOT showed borrowers name, a married woman.

Like I said in my original post, I knew better but second guessed myself. I am not the one who should not decide who else is to sign if there is no additional signature lines.

Reply by VERONICA DESCHANEAU on 4/18/06 3:15pm
Msg #114263

correction

I am not the one who should decide who else is to sign if there is no additional signature lines.

Reply by VERONICA DESCHANEAU on 4/18/06 3:16pm
Msg #114264

Damn trackball...guess I just gave my identity away. n/m

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/18/06 3:18pm
Msg #114267

Re: Damn trackball...guess I just gave my identity away.

LOL...it's not the first time Veronica

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/18/06 3:17pm
Msg #114265

Re: UPDATE

if there was a waiver, the TC is responsible for getting it to you, in this case, I would have requested a trip fee.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/18/06 5:39pm
Msg #114309

Re: UPDATE

I'm with Charm. The non borrowing spouse isn't legally required to sign any docs in California. If their name isn't on the docs and the TC didn't include the waiver in the package you did nothing wrong.

This is their screw up, they should pay you for a second trip.

Reply by Paul_IL on 4/18/06 5:27pm
Msg #114303

What state are you in? It helps to post this and maybe a name besides anonymous