Posted by BrendaTx on 4/23/06 11:39am
Msg #115415
Tx Notary + Some Signing Services = UPL?
Texans,
If you do certain home improvements, cash outs or helocs and do them in the wrong place you might contribute to us getting shut down completely in Texas. You might also wind up in court testifying about it for UPL.
The signing services who are sending you certain HIs, HELOCs and cash-outs without
-a lender branch (of the lender in the loan)
-a title company
-a law office
to do the job will wind up in a deposition or in court there to verify that you did or did not do the notarizations in the correct location.
If you do not believe it, go talk to a lawyer. I was in the office of one on Friday who explained to me how the one sending out the orders and the notary doing these wrong are presuming to practice law and misconstruing it.
So...think before you take a signing and doing it in a home when that is against what is supposed to be done.
I was almost dragged into one for Saturday. They scheduled it with me before they told me what it was...then they said AQ. I said "Cash Out?" Signing w/ a notary on a Sat. for a cash out?
I happened to be sitting in that very lawyer's office when the call came in. That brought the discussion up. I turned it down and he had a call so I terminated the call to ask if he wanted it. He said sure. So I called the place back and guess what...they had filled it with a notary in a little town down the road where there is not law office or title co. to do the job in.
When I said I was with an atty who would gladly do it or let me do it in his office for them, they tried to cover with the explanation that they were getting the address of the place it would be done in and could give it to me if I would call back. LOL...they would give *me* that info? Since when am I that important? I am not. That was funny.
I was surprised that the lawyer said it would be UPL, I did not say that, he did. It never crossed my mind that it would be looked at that way. But, who am I to argue? I am not the lawyer!
Just a word to the wise...
...if it is a Texas property, ask before you do it in another state...if it is a cash out or a HELOC the security instruments will state it has to be done in a law office, title co., or a lender branch. You will be signing an ack or a jurat or both that state it was done in the proper location. The lawyer in Tx seems to think that would be a problem. I don't know...I can't interpret the law.
HELOCs in Texas really need to stay out of the hands of signing services who do not respect the law here. Now that times are tougher with no refis, they will get many unsuspecting neophytes in trouble doing these high pay jobs.
CW-FS and/or AQ pays very well and they will try to pass them on to the SA for $50-75 + $25 for edocs. CW and/or AQ may be allowing $250-$350 to get that signing done. They will make $200-$275 off of you and you'll both be doing a questionable act.
Don't be foolish.
Write me if you have questions or post your comments. I will try to get the answers for you if I do not know them.
I feel certain I am not the only Texan reading this board. Notaries, if you do not want to be in trouble be careful and find some other way to make your signing fees up. Do not be stupid and take these cash outs.
Let's have the title companies and lenders handling these like they are supposed to.
| Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/23/06 7:24pm
Msg #115431
Question for Ms. MKIA
B, Is it compliant w/ TX law even if the attorney or title co has
nothing to do w/ the xaction?
It sounded as though your atty friend was just going to let
you use his office & that would make the xaction kosher.
| Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/23/06 8:07pm
Msg #115434
PS for Ms. MKIA
You might want to check out the TSR message board
under "Humor , Jokes, etc. "
| Reply by BrendaTx on 4/24/06 9:16am
Msg #115486
BRENDA-Mother KIA Responds to BOB-Daddy KIA
Daddy Kia - thank you for asking. At least someone is paying attention today!
Let's see if I can answer this without the unauthorized practicing of law...
See: The Texas Constitution
Article 16 - GENERAL PROVISIONS - Section 50 - HOMESTEAD; PROTECTION FROM FORCED SALE; MORTGAGES, TRUST DEEDS, AND LIENS
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txconst/sections/cn001600-005000.html
Here's a part of it...
(N) is closed only at the office of the lender, an attorney at law, or a title company;
----------------
Even a lawyer cannot go out to a home and be in compliance.
In the Texas Finance Committee notes there is a place where they discussed this and concluded this was such as it is to protect the consumer from predatory lenders.
It was further discussed that the bwr would be at a disadvantage if they could not do it within the hours of the lender, title co., attorney. The committee said then there should be a POA signed for the spouse who could not make it.
I don't like it, I just have to play by the rules. Or, there will be plenty of reason to pull the plug on us like is happening in other states.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 4/24/06 9:27am
Msg #115490
Re: Question for Ms. MKIA
**It sounded as though your atty friend was just going to let
you use his office & that would make the xaction kosher.**
I don't know if it will make it kosher. I could only assume kosher if it is okay'd by the lawyer in this situation, right?
| Reply by NCLisa on 4/24/06 8:30am
Msg #115475
I would almost have to say that they want the transaction supervised by an attorney, TC or lender. Sounds like some mortgage brokers that fund their own loans may have gone door to door at one point taking advantage of people.
Attorneys aren't gods, they are not always right, and each one interprets the law as it fits their views. I'd call a few other attorneys and find out what they have to say. From what I saw online, the laws were passed in 2000 or 2001, this is nothing new.
In NC a refi transaction does not need to be supervised by an attorney, so NSA's are ok. But a purchase transaction MUST be supervised by an attorney, even if that means only via the phone while they are at the closing table.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 4/24/06 9:17am
Msg #115487
You are correct Lisa, attorneys are not Gods, but the Texas Constitution dictates this.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 4/24/06 9:42am
Msg #115493
Re: Tx Notary + ...Lisa -
I would love to be able to do HELOCs as I would have a big business, but the facts and the law are the facts and the law.
I was not provoked into doing this thread because of the lawyer...it was a coincident and finding out that a certain signing service is sending these out again as if they did not know better.
If these are done in the wrong place the lender will have to pay the bwr $1000 if the bwr figures it out and brings it to the lender's attention. That's how the finance committee decided to fix the problem so lenders would start doing HELOCs in Texas. If you want to find out all the ins and outs, go to
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txconst/toc.html and read the Tx Cons.
Then, warp over to the finance committee of Texas right here:
http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/commit/c540/c540.htm
The finance committee was given the right to translate the Tx. Cons. updates in 2000 and 2001 that you mention.
| Reply by SLM_TX on 4/24/06 8:56am
Msg #115481
Thanks for the heads up Brenda
| Reply by BrendaTx on 4/24/06 9:45am
Msg #115494
You are welcome. I am not happy to bring the news, but just telling it like it is.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 4/24/06 11:54am
Msg #115522
Thanks to ya'll who have emailed me-Tx HELOC Loans will say
Texas Home Equity Loan or something similar at the top of the security instrument.
Thanks to those of you who have been interested and have looked at this.
At the bottom of one of the documents you will see there is a place where it will say you have done certain things and the bwr is to sign this. That's where I think it matters for those of us who are in the field. It will be like you are notarizing a known false statement if you notarize a bwr's statement that you are in a title company, law office, or a lender branch when you are not.
I have just been told of another ss who is trying to sneak these past.
Lordy, we would love to do them but if we do them and the bwrs ever get wind of the fact they can get $1000 for a wrongly signed loan stack, where will that leave NSAs? Right now we can do purchases, refi's some types of HI's and rev morts. Let's don't blow it for the quick buck. Rev morts will grow.
Be careful!
| Reply by Anonymous on 5/3/06 8:41pm
Msg #117574
HELLO, I HAVE JUST STARTED IN THE SS BUSINESS. I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE ROPES.(I AM FAMILIAR WITH SIGNINGS BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN AN ESCROW OFFICER FOR A TITLE COMPANY SINCE 1998) I HAVE 3 SIGNINGS IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS. DO YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO GET EDOCS DOWNLOADED OR WITH MY COMPUTER AND PRINTER AUTOMATICALLY GENERATE THEM?? ALSO, ARE YOU SAYING THE ONLY SIGNINGS THAT CANNOT BE DONE IN A HOME ARE HQ??? ALL OTHER TYPES ARE LEGAL??
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/06 9:16pm
Msg #117580
HELLO, I HAVE JUST STARTED IN THE SS BUSINESS.
You say SS - do you really mean you are a notary signing agent, or is signing service what you meant? Just curious.
I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE ROPES. (I AM FAMILIAR WITH SIGNINGS BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN AN ESCROW OFFICER FOR A TITLE COMPANY SINCE 1998)
Okay...
I HAVE 3 SIGNINGS IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS. DO YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO GET EDOCS DOWNLOADED OR WITH MY COMPUTER AND PRINTER AUTOMATICALLY GENERATE THEM??
It could be either way.
ALSO, ARE YOU SAYING THE ONLY SIGNINGS THAT CANNOT BE DONE IN A HOME ARE HQ??? ALL OTHER TYPES ARE LEGAL??
This is kind of a slippery slope. Please re-read the first post in this thread. I do enjoy assisting people, and I am not trying to be a smart a__ but if you are a title company person, you have heard some of the discussion about this surely.
Since I do not know who I am answering and I find your mention of affiliation with the TC peculiar in light of your question, I am reluctant to say much more on this. If you want to contact me directly please click on my link and read my consulting charge at the bottom of my profile. Consulting does not mean me giving you legal advice, but pointing you toward the documents and laws I have utilized in the past to guide me. Nothing I say or do is to be considered as the final word. You must do a vast amount of research to steer yourself.
I am not trying to advertise myself, but what I have found is most likely you'll be referred to me if you contact some of the others here. I might be able to help you in a few minutes for no charge at all...or maybe it could become a longer conversation or learning experience and I like to be clear up front.
Please also understand that I tend to be straightforward and if I am coming across as snippy it is not intended. Writing can come across like that.
Either way, welcome to the business (such as it is) in Texas these days! Also, please feel free to ignore this post completely.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/06 9:17pm
Msg #117581
Anon from Tx - be sure to read these...
If you want to find out all the ins and outs, go to
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txconst/toc.html and read the Tx Cons.
Then, warp over to the finance committee of Texas right here:
http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/commit/c540/c540.htm
The finance committee was given the right to translate the Tx. Cons. updates in 2000 and 2001 that you mention.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/06 9:18pm
Msg #117582
Anon from TX - here's the part of the Tx Const. you need.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txconst/sections/cn001600-005000.html
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