Posted by Anonymous on 4/28/06 11:27pm
Msg #116710

note

I am new to the signing and got my first loans papers to notaries.
The "NOTE" doesn't have place for the norary seal, but sais "witness my hand and seal", does it mean it has to be notaties, or not?

Reply by Jenny_CA on 4/28/06 11:42pm
Msg #116712

Upon reviewing the CA SOS handbook is there an example of any wording that is needed on a document for it to be notarized?

An excellent thread to read is 33325.

Reply by CalimnCA on 4/28/06 11:48pm
Msg #116713

Anon is this a real post or someone board on a Friday night? n/m

Reply by CalimnCA on 4/28/06 11:49pm
Msg #116714

Re: board/bored n/m

Reply by Mary_in_VA on 4/28/06 11:52pm
Msg #116717

PLEASE see msg #116407...

and its follow-up answers! We JUST went through this!

Reply by GF_CA on 4/28/06 11:57pm
Msg #116719

You do not need notarize the note

Just let the BO sign the last page

Reply by janCA on 4/29/06 1:31am
Msg #116727

Educate yourself

Please, please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeese educate yourself on loan document signings before you actually do a real signing. There is so much information out there. Use the orange search button and you will find a variety of ways of how to learn and educate yourself in this field.

Reply by Ndwa on 4/29/06 2:49am
Msg #116730

Spankin time...Where's Cali? n/m

Reply by Kelly M Robertson on 4/29/06 7:16am
Msg #116737

If No Notarial Verbiage is Provided, then No Notarization

The question is fair and does not require a spankin. "Seal" is an indicator to just about every newbie that perhaps a notarization may be in order. Anon, as you will see when you look at the Note, there is no notarial wording so don't worry about notarizing it. That goes with any document in the loan package - no notarial verbiage, no notarization.

I agree, Anon, that self-education is very important so you do a great job as a loan signing agent, working with attention-to-detail and a solid work ethic and within your state's laws. There are many great books out there or live classes, tons of vendors, seminars and another great suggestion is to use the Orange Search button above and listen, and read and learn. Please consider not doing any more signings until you learn more about your role so you keep yourself out of hot water. Good luck!

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 4/29/06 9:38am
Msg #116748

This guy is just seeking a little information. Will you give him a break with all the pompous nonsense and greatly exalted opinions of what it is that you do.

The term "witness my hand and seal" on documents refers to the borrowers hand (signature) and seal...not to a notarial seal.

There was a time, and in some states possibly still is true, when documents were signed under seal. In many states it is an archaic term of art. They usually related to corporate documents and documents to be recorded in the land records. If the signer could not sign his name, he used his seal. The requirement of a document signed under seal (signer's seal ...not notarial) is a requirement that dates back to a time when most people were illiterate. They were unable to sign their names, so they used ther seal. If they were of a noble house they used a family coat of arms usually in the form of a signet ring impressed in sealing wax. If they were of common origin they simply used an "X" or other pictograph. If you have ever seen the movie of "Mobie Dick" you will recall the harpooneer Quig Quig signing with the picture of a whale. Locally here in Connecticut there was a formal treaty signed with a local Indian chief during the colonial period in which his seal was a picture of a bow and arrow...not a formal signature as we know it, but perfectly acceptable as a seal. The seal is most often seen on deeds. In many states the requirement of the seal can be satified by the word seal written in parentheses (Seal) or the letters LS in parenthases (L.S.) of course if the signer has a formal seal this may also be used. Corporations apply their resecpective corporate seal. This is generally done by the corporte Secretary as keeper of the corporate seal. By today's standards of literacy the signer of the document is simply required to sign his name, and if his seal is required after his signature, it usually takes the form of (Seal) or (L.S.).

Reply by new_in_CA on 4/29/06 11:25am
Msg #116770

Thanks so much for your explanation!

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 4/29/06 4:51pm
Msg #116798

you are most welcome.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/29/06 5:43pm
Msg #116800

**This guy is just seeking a little information. Will you give him a break with all the pompous nonsense and greatly exalted opinions of what it is that you do.**

Kevin, While I appreciate that you offered an answer, your answer is also condescending toward notary types sans law degree. It belies any respectfulness toward the people in the thread and it is a disappointing response from you. I think Jenny's response was perfectly definitive. If you think so little of notaries here why would you bother? Something to think about.

Reply by lulu on 4/29/06 7:53pm
Msg #116807

Kevin,
I sincerely appreciate this history lesson. I do not mean that sarcastically in the least. Where I have seen the '(seal)' beside the borrowers signature spot I have often wondered why it was there and determined that it must be an old thing that was just never taken off in common day documents. I have even had borrowers point it out to me thinking I needed to put my stamp there. As with many day to day business activities and somewhat rituals or habits sometimes people fall into a rhythm of simply doing certain things because that is how they were trained and never asking why.

There is an old tale someone once told me of a college getting a new dean. As he was being shown around by one of the faculty they stopped into the cafeteria for lunch. As they were discussing items where they could cut costs the faculty member introduced him to the cook and involved him in the conversation of cutting costs. At some point a subject came up of how the cook makes two tapioca puddings every day and every day he throws them out. When asked why he makes them his response was that the previous cook had always made two tapioca puddings so in his training he learned to do so and never thought to question why he made two and threw two away. He simply did it without thinking why. History behind this is that two deans before liked tapioca pudding and requested it be put on the menu. In the event that someone were to sit with that dean and also wanted a tapioca pudding the previous cook was instructed to make two tapioca puddings every day.
Moral of the story is: DO ask questions. DO ask why something is done. Sometimes when someone has done something for so long they forget why they do it and it takes a NEW perspective in the picture to really evaluate the true reason certain things are done and if they still meet the needs or are futile and need to be disregarded. IMHO, of course.