Posted by Gary_CA on 8/12/06 6:01pm
Msg #138451

A couple of dumb questions

So I'm getting ready to get ready to be a signing agent. And I'm reading everything I can, including my state's handbook (for you old fart geeks out there, RTFM never goes out of style).

A couple of questions are burning in my mind.

1) Credible witnesses... there's half a dozen things they have to state under oath... do you take that in writing? If so, what happens to that statement? I understand from my class that you have a credible wittness sign in the identity column of the journal entry of the main transaction. I know this isn't a common occurance, just wondering.

2) What's the big deal with fax backs. When y'all are moanin' and groanin' about 30 pages of fax backs do they all go to the same place? If so, so what? Everyone has some pretty high powered faxes so don't you just shove the pages in, hit the big green button and go watch West Wing? (I'm guessing there must be more to it than that, thus the question.)

I had a question 3 but I'm not remembering at the moment, I'm trying to save my dumb questions and make bulk orders out of 'em.

TIA, Gary

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/12/06 6:05pm
Msg #138452

Wait up... now I remember #3...

What's the big deal about telling someone if they need an acknowledgement or a jurat. Okay, as a Realtor, I understand being on the edge of legal advice and not giving it... don't need a lesson on UPL... it's just of all the legal advice you shouldn't give why is this such an issue? Seems like a no brainer to me: is that piece of paper swearing the truth of some facts or is it executing a contract or agreement. Wouldn't seem like a whole lot of legal advice there.

???

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/12/06 6:12pm
Msg #138456

Gary, RTFM. j/k. Don't know if this is the deal in CA, but in Tx, the manual says no. That's all I need to know about it.

A jurat is swearing, an ack is acknowledging. We are not supposed to know the difference or what the legal requirement is for documents (ack or jurat).

Reply by Brad_CA on 8/12/06 7:02pm
Msg #138467

Gary, when a company requires faxbacks it means that they do not trust the NSA to perform their duties properly. Countrywide and Ameriquest are the most common that require faxbacks. Professional/experienced NSA'S are offended that they have to be babysat because of those $50/lowball notaries that do not know what the h$ll they are doing, and cause this.
I tell them my fee for faxbacks is $50.00. They always say, "that's ok just ship them back."

As far as acknowledgement vs jurat, we as Ca. notaries are not allowed to tell them which to use. They must tell us which they require.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/12/06 6:10pm
Msg #138453

RTFM? Yeah, I get it. I love it. I will say it again.

Fax backs mean
(1) You cannot drop off on your way home. Extra trip out. Makes no sense.
(2) My HP3015 is not partial to cranking through 30 pages one at a time. No TV for me. Must babysit the fax. No...I do not want to purchase another one. I'll just require payment for the babysitting of the fax machine.
(3) Breaking a curve that I have learned from the beginning: KEEP THE DOCS IN ORDER. Faxing back requires a tear down of the package.
(4) Too many notaries who do not understand WTH they are doing so we are now expected to do this.
(5) It's probably more like 45 to 55 pages in Tx.

Reply by hcampersFL on 8/12/06 6:10pm
Msg #138454

I have some answers for #2

I will answer question #2 for you.
1.Fax backs are never all in one place in a package you have to pull out all of the documents through out the package. This takes TIME.
2. Fax backs aren't free. They cost $$ in long distance and TIME.
3. Faxing back documents to check our work that we know is complete and properly filled out waste our TIME.
4. TIME = MONEY.
5. I have a decent all in one machine. It still takes almost 20 minutes to fax back 20-30 pages. If I do 3 signings a day that is 1 hour of long distance alone. That ain't FREE.

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/12/06 6:33pm
Msg #138461

Glad I asked...

Well duh... see I haven't done it so I didn't think about the doc order part or the two trip deal...I live 30 minutes into the forest from town, so going back to fax a doc that they're gonna get before 10am tommorow anyway... you're right, that makes no sense.

And from my RE files I can appreciate the wisdom of "keep the docs in order" there always comes a certain day in every transaction (about 2 days before COE) where I give up on that... and then I pay for it afterwards.

I've been thinking that one of those little wizzy-dizzy scanners for my laptop would make me truly mobile (that and a printer)... but shovin' 30 pages through one of those would be a PITA.

Okay, I get it... get paid for it... thanks for the practical advice.

P.S. That aint in the fine manual... I read it cover to cover.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/12/06 6:36pm
Msg #138462

Re: I have some answers for #2

6. You then have to put all those pages back into the package in the same order they were before (if you're anal like I am). Hopefully you remembered to mark where they were in the package with sticky notes! Again, TIME=MONEY.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 8/12/06 6:51pm
Msg #138464

Re: Gary another words a Royal Pain in Rear.....even if your

not anal......

Reply by Blueink_CA on 8/12/06 7:51pm
Msg #138484

Re: Gary another words a Royal Pain in Rear.....even if your

A couple of docs requested to be faxed back for expedited funding is understandable. The ones that ask for 20 or 30 pages, and then want us to wait until we're graded before shipping, are the ones that bug me. In the latter case, I never worry about putting them back in order.

Reply by Life Saving Services - Doug on 8/12/06 8:39pm
Msg #138499

Re: Gary another words a Royal Pain in Rear.....even if your

Haven't had one yet as I just turn down any and all $50 dollar signings. I even cancelled an online application to one company that in there ap asked how far I would go for $50.00. Thought I'd answer 0 miles but thought baloney I would not accept $50.00 unless they came to me and they supplied all the doc's ( which they will not ).

All the companies that have met my fee have had me fax back only that the signing is complete and the FedX tracking number.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 8/12/06 10:10pm
Msg #138512

I'm with Blueink with this one

A company that requires documents to be faxed back; I have never and mean never once put the loan docs sent back to them in the correct order.

99% of the companies want the docs returned, signed correctly, and could care less what order the docs are returned.


If you work for a control type company that insists that the docs be returned in the correct order they emailed them to you, than by all means put them back in the correct order or don't work for them again.

Most companies could care less!

Reply by Pamela on 8/13/06 12:13am
Msg #138522

Joan, Re: I'm with Blueink with this one

Joan,

I ALWAYS return my documents in the same order received,
as I thought that is what the companies expect.
So, this "newbie" has learned another lesson.

Pam

Reply by Sherri_mo on 8/13/06 10:46am
Msg #138553

Re: Joan, Re: I'm with Blueink with this one

This fax back topic always stirs up some controversy. My policy is no problem with fax backs if the fee justifies it and I am provided a toll free fax number. I too do not put the package back in order. If there are fax backs they are returned on top of the package in the order they come off my Fax.
I had a request for a large fax back to Washington Mutual yesterday and to a toll number. I called them and requested a toll free number, which they claimed they did not have, so I replied that it would be a $25 additional charge and they then decided to forget it and told my to just send the O/N package.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/13/06 10:59am
Msg #138556

Your Image is the one on the line - Put them back in order

Title company is usually who I am shipping to. If they are the fax back requester then it makes sense not to ship in the same order.

However, if the signing service is the one begging for faxbacks, well, how will the title company know that the package was ripped apart for them?

Seems like it makes the notary look sloppy as all get out. I put the package back in order because I don't like the sloppy appearance it gives me.

Keep your prices above $1xx for base, add $25 for edocs, and then fax back time is not so critical. I'll smile and do it when I am getting paid $1xx or more. Also, pricing yourself like that will quickly weed out the fax back ninnies.

Reply by Pamela on 8/13/06 1:36pm
Msg #138570

Brenda, Very Smart! - Put them back in order n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/13/06 1:42pm
Msg #138571

Re: Your Image is the one on the line - Put them back in order

Sounds good...except that when they lose something, they blame the kid in the mail room or the one who made copies... so who are we impressing here? Actually, I have put them back together for years & years, thinking it was the right thing to do. After reading many posts from people who say they don't put 'em back in order, what the heck, I tried it. Guess what? No problems.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 8/13/06 1:51pm
Msg #138573

This is how I handle it

Unless they give me (and one title company I work for does) a stacking order; if they want fax backs the only thing I put back in order is the mortgage if they request first, signature and acknowledgement page faxed back to them and then they all go on top of the rest of the docs. If you all realized how that package is torn apart once it reaches the title company, you'd realize how anal it is to make sure that everything is in the correct order as received. Even the title company that does give me a stacking order, it is NOT the order it comes to me, but the order that they want for their purposes and processing.

Reply by Poppy on 8/13/06 2:25pm
Msg #138574

OT, question....

Dorothy
I noticed that you service several counties and I wondered if you just cover a huge area (mileage wise) or if counties are just smaller outside of northern CA.... Just curious... I haven't traveled much outside of CA... I did live in PA when I was a kid but don't remember much more than my neighborhood....

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 8/13/06 5:06pm
Msg #138586

Re: OT, question....

The area I cover is pretty large. My home county is over 900 square miles and the largest in Michigan, but I am fortunate to live in the county seat which is almost exactly in the center, thus I'm able to cover all of it as well as the surrounding counties which are quite a bit smaller.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/13/06 4:40pm
Msg #138580

Re: Your Image is the one on the line - Put them back in order

Thanks for your insight, Lee. I hear you, good info to mull over, I just don't know if I can get past the habit.

And, I have to give some weight to Andy Le's remark who said if we get paid for the faxes, we ought to put them back in order.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 8/13/06 5:12pm
Msg #138587

Re: Your Image is the one on the line - Put them back in order

As I stated in my post further down this thread, unless they specifically state what order they want them put in, I don't and mostly because I don't ususually present them in the order I print them. I go over the HUD, the note, the TIL, RTC and Mortgage first and sometimes payment information. Many times the RTC and the note are at the very end of the package as well as the payment info. As I said before, in my experience from contracting in the title office, they pull them all apart when they get them back because different people work on different aspects.

Reply by patricia on 8/14/06 1:02am
Msg #138601

Re: Your Image is the one on the line - Put them back in order

I have never put the faxed documents back in order, I just place them on top of the package.
So far never a complaint but I dont do many fax-backs.

Reply by Raimond on 8/13/06 11:09am
Msg #138558

I had a faxback loan that the SS stated on the first call that the docs had to be in the same order when returned....
I asked which one they wanted, faxed back or in order? They said both. I added $25 more to my price for the extra time required to mark the place for each page and they quickly desided someone at escrow could resort the docs.
Your time is your money, if you work for free you will be loved by the SS even when you are going broke.

As for as whick to use, Ack of Jurat? Show them both and let them choose or call their lawyer....

Good questions Gary!
Welcome to the signing business.

Reply by Ndwa on 8/13/06 1:49pm
Msg #138572

By all means

If you charged and were paid a fee for fax back then by all means you're...IMO...Obligated to put the package back in it's original order, otherwise it'd be a dis-service.

Reply by Raimond on 8/13/06 2:48pm
Msg #138575

Re: By all means

I agree to a point.... however

If I am pulling the last 2 pages of the DOT for faxbacks then I will put all 16 pgs of the DOT back together and in order. However, I doubt I would try to remember that the DOT was behind the 42nd page of the package. I was once told by a processor that she did not care about the order as long as all the pages of a certin doc (HUD, NOTE....) were together. Her reasoning was that she had to reorder the docs in a folder for the LO anyway. Besides, many times the e-docs are in 2 or more emails.....
Does the title stuff go before the loan docs or after? Does it really matter?

I always put the HUD and RTC on top of the package anyway....

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/14/06 5:58am
Msg #138606

Re: A couple of cents worth on fax-backs

maybe this will help broaden the understanding - but I'm with you, Gary, I don't find it any great shakes.

When a loan closes via SA, it adds one more day (sometimes TWO) to the processing than when it closes inside a Title office. Since there isn't a lot of margin to begin with, the request for fax-backs is a security measure that can come from any of the parties - the lender, the title agent, or the SS (if there is one). The security they're looking for is that the 'collateral' documents (what some call the 'legals') will provide for a valid loan & recordable mtg/dot - because they often will have to fund on FAITH, before those docs are back. The other way around this is to do split-shipping.

I suspect a lot of these fax-back requests come from SS's - and while some folks find the 'babysitting' a little offensive, you could take another perspective - it puts hardcopy proof of the loan's compliant closing in the hands of someone who can back you up, should anyone later say it wasn't done properly. You could also look at it as marketing - otherwise, the SS would never actually SEE your work but rely on a LACK of feedback (more often than not) as proof of your capability. You can look at it as job security - if YOU shine, but there's a need to babysit the industry in general, well why would you grumble?

If I'm asked for fax-backs and the signing is in the late afternoon or evening, I give them the choice - faxbacks, or same-day shipping (provided I can guarantee that!), and thus far they've always chosen the shipping. If it's a late appt and it won't ship the same day anyway, then faxing back isn't any big deal to me.

When I DO fax-back, I only send SIGNATURE pages (for the mtg/dot, I send first page, signature page and my Ack. if it's separate page). I always use a cover, and identify the loan.

This process doesn't annoy me, doesn't frustrate me or offend me in any way - and it takes about 3 min to do it, AND to put the pages back together. Once you know your docs - which I would consider part of your chosen job - you should be able to pull pages out and put them back in no time flat. I would never send in a pkg without all the pages of each doc together, AND in order. I mean - the mtg, for example, I would always have together and the pages in order, because I wouldn't want to be reflected upon the way that would reflect on me. To me, it would be unprofessional, sloppy, and present 'an attitude' of being inconsiderate to the next person.