Posted by Valerie Green on 8/19/06 5:57pm
Msg #139574

Borrower without ID

Had late afternoon signing today. Arrived at borrowers home. (18 yr old), my first request
was for her ID. She told to me that she did not have any. My closing instructions specifically said for borrower to have copies of ID. The loan officer also explained this to her. Needless to say, I did not do the signing. I notified the ss, did not get a reply from them yet. Did I handle this correctly? This is my first signing.

Thank you.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 8/19/06 6:01pm
Msg #139575

Absotively...Posilutely correct...you are FIRST a Notary

Public who MUST be able to identify the person AS the person they are attesting to. If THAT simple fact can't happen, then the entire deal can't happen. Does your state allow for any other way to identify the person, i.e. CW, other forms of docs?....If not, then you are correct Madam in what you did. Good on you! "Doc"

Reply by Alan/IA on 8/19/06 6:03pm
Msg #139576

You did the right thing. BTW how does an 18 yr old not have an I.D.??
Even non us citizens that are legal have Alien ID Cards, with a Photo.
No Lender wants a non-identified person signing docs, trust me I work for one.
And if you did, you could be sued for major money.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 8/19/06 6:05pm
Msg #139577

again depending on your state, did this person not have ANY id, i.e. student id, SOMETHING with a picture (again depending on your state), name etc?...Again, though you did good!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/19/06 6:08pm
Msg #139580

Valerie
Do you mean she had no ID at all? Or just that she did not have a copy as requested by company?

Reply by Ted Baynes on 8/19/06 7:40pm
Msg #139589

Valerie:
You did indeed. The heart of what we do is verification of the identity of the borrower. If you can't do that, you have to abort.
You done good! ;o))
Take care.
Ted

Reply by GF_CA on 8/19/06 9:22pm
Msg #139592

We are in United State, every person need have a ID, someone don't, it is not my problem. I stop the signing. Only one time I use a credible Witness and, ONLY because the person was in the hospital and couldn't move.

Reply by GF_CA on 8/19/06 9:24pm
Msg #139593

I forgot to add, when I call the borrower for appointment

I always ask if they have a valid ID.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/20/06 5:22am
Msg #139604

Prison ID

I had one where the ex husband had to sign as non borrowing owner. They told me that their divorce decree awarded her the house in lieu of child support but apparently it was never recorded...hence the need for his signiture.
He said he had lost his DL the week before and had gone back to all the bars he had been at and hadn't found it. All he had was his prison ID (with a very good picture on it) and his fishing licence. I used the date on the little booking sign under his chin in the picture as the issue date. Didn't see an "expiration" or release date.
Later when I got home, curiosity got the better of me and I looked him up on the state court site. His DL had been taken from him about 2 weeks prior to the signing.

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/20/06 1:55pm
Msg #139636

Prison ID works in CA

but only if you drive out to the prison to meet him... CA regs are clear about that.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/20/06 3:00pm
Msg #139642

WI laws are not..... n/m

Reply by JOSEPH LASCALA on 8/19/06 9:18pm
Msg #139591

Valerie,
In your state could you have used two credible witnesses to ID her ?

Reply by Lynn Lowry on 8/20/06 6:04pm
Msg #139659

We do not use credible witnesses in NC and it is a problem when acting a a mobile notary. I have had elderly people for whom I could not notarize their signature as their only form of government issued photo ID was an expired drivers license. I have written to the Secretary of State suggesting that they add a statute allowing the use of credible witnesses.

I take it that a credible witness need not be personally known to the notary, since I have read that signers scramble around to find neighbors to act in the capacity.

The NC Statues are also not clear on the use of Subscribing Witnesses and it is not written that one must be personally know to both the signer and the Notary.

Reply by NCLisa on 8/20/06 6:25pm
Msg #139661

Re: Look at the December 1, 2005 changes to NC

Section 10B-3 (5) & (22)

Reply by Lynn Lowry on 8/20/06 6:38pm
Msg #139663

Thanks!

As my sixteen-year old daughter would say, "My Bad"!

I was referring to my NC Notary PUblic Guidebook rather than the Statutes. The Statutes still don't provide that two Credible Witnesses can be used to identify a signer.

Reply by NCLisa on 8/20/06 8:44pm
Msg #139671

Re: Thanks!

We only need to use 1 credible witness, not 2.

(22) "Satisfactory evidence of a signer's identity" means identification of an individual
based on either of the following:
a. At least one current document issued by a federal, state, or federal or state-recognized
tribal government agency bearing the photographic image of the individual's face and
either the signature or a physical description of the individual.
b. The oath or affirmation of one credible witness unaffected by the record or transaction
who is personally known to the notary and who personally knows the individual seeking
to be identified.

I have to say that I HATE the fact that our SOS won't publish the guidebook in pdf format online. I've not been able to get the current handbook from the School of Government and I've ordered it twice, and I still haven't gotten my refund. So they promised they'd get me the new edition when it comes out next month. Like I believe I'll ever see that.

Reply by Lynn Lowry on 8/20/06 10:15pm
Msg #139676

Re: Thanks!

The problem with the credible witness language in the NC statutes is that it reads, "The oath or affirmation of one credible witness . . . who is personally known to the notary and who personally knows the individual seeking to be identified."

10-B3 (22) does no good in the 99.99% of cases when the notary does not personaly know both the signer and the credible witness. As I wrote in an earlier post on this thread, in NC it is impossible to properly identify many ederly signers who no longer drive and have let their driver's licenses expire. In many other states, in such an instance, two credible witnesses could be used.

Reply by NCLisa on 8/20/06 10:34pm
Msg #139677

Re: Thanks!

Lynn, the best part of this is, that you only have to know the credible witness for a few minutes! Yes, I did ask the SOS this question in April when I had the situation come up, I wanted to know how long I had to know them to be personally known to me, and they said just long enough that you are sure of their identity. So I gather once you ID them, you know them.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 8/22/06 5:14am
Msg #139859

Ouch! (Credible Witness)

CT says that credible witnesses have to be known to both the notary and the signer. The Notary Manual says
It is essential that the credible witness be "personally known" to the notary.
(quotes their's) but does not state what "personally known" means. We haven't been able to get a definition out of the Secretary of State's Office, either.

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/21/06 9:47am
Msg #139728

Re: Thanks!

MA law is like NC law in that the credible witness must know the Notary *and* the signer.

If I am to complete a notarization at a Nursing Home, I always make certain that I explain to them that they *must* have valid ID when I arrive. If their ID is expired, they need to visit the RMV before they meet with me.