Posted by Joy223 on 8/22/06 10:28pm
Msg #140093

Dress Code

About 6 months ago my husband and I refinanced. The signing agent came dressed in capries and sandals. She was dressed very casual. This didn't bother me but now I am wondering if this is the norm or just something some SA's do. She was extremely nice and so her appearance wasn't an issue with me but could it be with some people? How are we suppose to dress when we are acting as a SA's?

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/22/06 10:38pm
Msg #140114

I have a "uniform" I wear. It consists of a skirt, blouse, the correct undergarments, and the correct footwear for the season (i.e. dress boots, dressy shoes, dressy sandals, etc).

Personally, I think that Capri's are entirely too casual.

Reply by Blueink_CA on 8/22/06 10:50pm
Msg #140129

Tina, I agree with you. I have two "uniforms" (in case I have to go back). One is a skirt and blouse, the other is gauchos and a pullover. Every season change, I go shopping. I love this job!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/23/06 7:38am
Msg #140179

Dress Code - and all this time I thought Blueink was a man

I am not seeing "man" any longer...not in gauchos and a pullover.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 8/22/06 10:47pm
Msg #140127

I usually wear khaki's (sp?) and a nice shirt. I don't usually wear a suit or dress too fancy. When I go to a borrower’s home I want them to feel comfortable. I think that if I go to their home and they're dressed in shorts and a t-shirt, a suit worn by me will be kind of awkward for them. I've been to restaurants where I hesitated for a moment wondering if I was supposed to dress up. I felt a little awkward at the beginning but when I saw a few others dressed alike, I felt more comfortable.

I dress descent. JMO

Reply by Joy223 on 8/22/06 10:54pm
Msg #140130

So I guess it really wouldn't be a good idea to wear something like jeans to a signing even if the borrowers are dressed that way. I was afraid they would feel funny with me dressing up a bit with them in jeans and shorts.

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/22/06 11:18pm
Msg #140136

>>>So I guess it really wouldn't be a good idea to wear something like jeans to a signing even if the borrowers are dressed that way. I was afraid they would feel funny with me dressing up a bit with them in jeans and shorts.<<<

Most companies have dress codes, and they forbid jeans, shorts, sneakers, etc.

You're not there to clean their house or mow the lawn. You're there to present important financial documents to them and you should be dressed accordingly (my opinion).

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 8/22/06 11:21pm
Msg #140138

It isn't what the borrowers want it's what the SS or TC wants and most want business casual which means NO jeans, NO shorts, NO tank tops, NO shirts without collars (tee shirts) and definitely no sayings printed on the tee shirt. In the winter I tend to dress a little more than in the summer. Winter I'll wear a skirt or pant suit with either a silk blouse or a sweater (depending on the weather), closed in modest stacked heels and of course pantyhose. Summer time I relax it somewhat and usually do not wear pantyhose, usually an open toe stacked heel shoe or dressy heeled sandal with a nice cotton tee top. I learned the hard way not to dress up too much in the summer as a great many of the homes in Michigan DO NOT have A/C. And some borrowers don't even have any doors or windows open or fans going. It is like taking a steam bath in your clothes. The ONLY time I've ever worn shorts and tee top was 3 summers ago when the whole east coast and a great deal of the midwest suffered a black out. That day I had 2 signings, both during the day. I did wear shorts that day. When I got to the first borrower I appologized for not wearing my suit. They responded, "If you'd have shown up in a suit, we'd have thought you were nuts". But that was extraordinary circumstances. Some in CA or FL dress more casually, but you can never go wrong with business casual or even business dress. After all that's what we're there for -- Business!

Reply by Jahari Davis on 8/22/06 10:57pm
Msg #140132

My opinion, I think the professional dress thing should be relaxed. I think that as long as you are wearing clothing that looks neat and no t-shirts with anything offensive on them, your fine. When I go for signings I usually wear a nice pair of jeans, a polo, or a henley shirt and sketchers. I have a Motown Records t-shirt with the old school logo on it that I've worn to a couple of signings and that usually gets a pretty good conversation going. I dont think the people really care so long as you dont look like a straight up bum.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 8/23/06 12:58am
Msg #140146

Re: Dress Code..imho you are wrong Jahari

Suit and tie...no...nice slacks and a polo...yes...nice slacks and a button down shirt...yes...jean (blue) NO...jeans (dockers) OK...NO t-shirts are acceptable in my opinion. We are not their 'buddies'...we are business people in their house (or where ever) and we represent either a SS, a TC or our own business. If you will look at my picture on my profile, (don't judge me, just the outfit)...you will see my "doc" top. I just came from a signing conducted at a fountain in Caesar's Palace Las Vegas NV. I wore black shoes, black socks, black slacks and my "Doc" top. (For those of you who can't read it, it says "Doc" Stuart, Signing Agent). This is my "uniform" for ALL my signings either in office or out. It is professional looking enough, yet whimsical enough so that they (the borrowers) wont think it 'too stuffy' Again MY opinion...and as we all know...opinions are like noses....everyone has one. "Doc"

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 8/23/06 1:16am
Msg #140147

Johari doesn't have the right dress code.

Most of these borrowers signed their last loan (when they bought their home at a escrow/lender/real estate/ office) and no one was wearing jeans at that office!!

Jeans are not to be worn if you want to get hired a 2nd time by a company. Many signing & title companies call the first time they hire you and ask the borrower(s) "What was the signing agent wearing?"

This is a HUGE ISSUE in our industry and some signing agents just don't get it!!

The woman that came to my house to sign my loan docs last year arrived wearing a sweat shirt, jeans, and tennis shoes and was in her early 20's and no idea when we started to talk she said: "why is it taking me over 2 hours to get every loan signed? DUH?

Companies don't call notaries and tell them they will not be hired because they dressed improperly; they just don't call you again!!

I'm not the fashion police but here is what I think men should wear: collard shirt, slacks, dress shoes. Women: skirt, dress, slacks.

Here is what I tell my classes not to wear: no tank tops, shorts, jeans, flip flops, baseball hats, tennis shoes, tee shirts/etc.

I don't care if it is the 4th of July and everyone is in their bathing suit you need to dress as a professional.

Someone posted above and I agree completely; you only need 1-2 outfits to do this job.

Keep it clean and your home free!

Reply by Stuart Posner on 8/23/06 1:26am
Msg #140150

Spot on Joan...(I hope I pass your fashion police :-) ) n/m

Reply by Signing_Doc on 8/23/06 1:26am
Msg #140151

Oh My...NOW you know my SECRET Identity n/m

Reply by NCLisa on 8/23/06 6:22am
Msg #140170

Business Casual

I've never heard of TC's calling to find out what we are wearing. The only time I've not had a second job from a TC or SS is if I don't want to take it.

I don't dress up for this job. In the summer it is black twill capris, a shirt that can be worn as business casual and Mephisto sandals. In the summer here when the humidity is high, I may have to change a couple times a day because you get drenched just walking from the car to someones front door. I"ve actually gone to closings in sweats last winter, had a kid spill his drink all over me, and rather than freezing and being wet, I put the sweats on that I keep in the car. Not one person complained about my dress, and I didn't lose any work.

When men start wearing dresses and skirts for work, that's when you will find me wearing one. I've never even worked in a law firm or any other office job where dresses & skirts were required. It's always been office casual, and then one or two days a week where jeans were allowed.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/23/06 8:49am
Msg #140194

I had a half dozen golf/polo shirts in various colors made up with my company name embroidered on the breast. They go well with khaki pants, and it gives the borrowers an immediate sense of professionalism while also identifying me as a notary.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 8/23/06 2:47am
Msg #140156

Ahh, yes, the old dress code argument.

Even though I am not in business any longer, I still speak from time to time to the work experience classes ant the local high schools from time to time. I tell tham that their job interview begins when they first walk in and ask for an application. That is where the first separation of applications begins. I personally did not call back a person for a detailed interview that could not bother to at least be dressed nice and at least to the standards others who already have that job are dressing to. If they have issues in their dress, then they will have issues in their work most of the time. When I was younger, I did not think it mattered, but experience has taught me this. Might not be fair in the eyes of some, but that is the way big business works. First impression can be a killer. Someone who has the responsibility of running a busniess needs as few problems as possible. But I don't want to get too long winded, so I will just say this.

If you want to get treated like a professional, then you need to dress like one. I don't wear dress shirts and ties anymore unless I have a speaking engagement, but I still wear the dress shoes, nice slacks and a dark colored golf-style shirt. It is not expensive to look good. .

Reply by Julie/MI on 8/23/06 6:25am
Msg #140171

Jahari, impressions count...

As I said in a past email to you Jahari, when I read some of your previous posts and now this one, I am hesitant to give you any referrals from any of my companies that may need a notary on your turf.

I would not want someone I referred to show up in jeans, P E R I O D! This would be a bad reflection on me as well.

It's your business, wear what you want, I wear suits as my best client sends me directly to the broker's office in Southfield and they expect a suit. Even when the lender has casual Fridays, I represent the title company and they want their closer looking like a professional.

Reply by Jason on 8/23/06 8:29am
Msg #140188

Jahari: You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Read Joan's post. n/m

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/23/06 4:45am
Msg #140161


Capri pants and sandals ... in MI ... in February? Anyway ...

We shouldn't take our cues from borrowers, other title office workers, etc. It's not about what anyone else does - it's about what WE do. That goes for everything in life. Next age-old adage to give heed to: You never know whom you're going to meet. Need more? Dress to impress. Dress for success. The thing about cliché’s is that they've been around a long time, for a reason.

The first part of dressing 'professionally' (whatever that means) begins with cleanliness - you and your clothes. Nothing short of impeccable. THAT is Rule #1 - and sometimes, it means having to run home and change when a borrower's home 'compromises' your impeccability. Head to Toe (and yes, your teeth fall in there, as do your hands/nails). Nothing can ruin a good first impression faster than poor hygiene or dirty clothes.

I think most of the seasoned folks (as this has been discussed nearly to death) agree - too casual is shooting yourself in the foot, and not the wisest business decision. Sometimes it's a matter of The Whole Picture - how you put yourself together. In summer, I do wear outfits with a t-shirt, but they are 'dressed up', meaning they're high quality and LOOK it, and part of a put-together outfit. (By the way - Lord & Taylor, tons of colors, $7 but HURRY!)

Put together a couple 'uniforms' and then buy multiples. I learned tricks from one of those 'personal shoppers' - keep all the pants/skirts black and khaki, keep all the shirts/tops white, blue (pale/baby blue for me), get a cardigan or two - red works w/ both. In fall & winter, I stick to turtlenecks, scarves and two good dress coats. Other than the coats - everything MUST be washable or I'm not wearing it to work in.

My problem is broker's offices - since I have uniforms, I'm always dressed "the same". That doesn't work when you're going the same PLACE all the time. I can't walk in and TELL them "I actually own 4 pair of these same pants!" They definitely throw a cog in the machine, and I hate buying clothes ... but I love their business. So, I delegate THAT income to adding some flavor to the closet.

Reply by Joy223 on 8/23/06 5:43am
Msg #140164

My mistake Renee....it wasn't 6 months ago......I meant to type weeks and typed months by mistake. It was the beginning of last month. Another one of my moments. But anyway......yes she was dressed in capries and a sleeveless blouse. Her hair was up on the back of her head and believe it or not she really did look nice......casusal but nice. She said she is busy in the business so I am wondering if the companies ever call and ask about her attire. Anyway................thanks to all who responded. I guess I am doing something right at least. I wear business casual.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/23/06 5:56am
Msg #140167

A-ha! another early bird, I see!

Good morning, Joy =) Yeah, I figured that had to be a typo somehow, but brrrrr I got cold just thinking about it!

I think you've kind of hit this on the head, with your overall impression of your closer. I mean, when you type it out in words "... she had on capries ..." it conjurs one image, and when you actually SEE her, you got another image. I think being 'polished' in your appearance is something a person either gets, or doesn't get - and that's why there are detailed dress codes inside every Employee Manual. What one person can wear and look downright trashy in, another person might be able to wear and present themselves very well. It really becomes the total sum of so many things - the clothes, the manner & attitude, the speach, the hygiene, all of it. Kind of like the tuner thing on the stereo, where you can tweak up this thing and that thing and orchestrate the final outcome.

And - it appears to me that you're doing all kinds of things 'right', Joy! =)

Reply by Ndwa on 8/23/06 6:27am
Msg #140172

Totally agreed ReneeK

What you said concurred exactly with an old saying in my culture, translated to "tooth and hair is a statude of one's appearance".

Reply by Jahari Davis on 8/23/06 7:31am
Msg #140178

I think I gave the wrong impression...

When I go to a closing, I dress casually, and neatly. I have never had a closing at an office. All of my closings have been at the borrowers home and usually during the evenings after work. I have worn blue or black jeans to closings and as I said before, polos, henleys etc. I think I've given everyone the impression that I am all about wearing t-shirts and jeans no matter what to closings and thats not the case. Dress neatly, nicely and be clean about yourself. The Motown Records shirt I mentioned in an earlier post just has the word MOTOWN across the chest with the old school logo on the side of that. On a saturday(which is when I wore the Motown shirt), that with a nice clean pair of jeans (blue or black), and a black pair of sketchers can work. Definately suits and slacks, a polo or a nice t-shirt when you close at an office. If you have a polo, go for the polo but, in my opinion, no harm with a nice t-shirt. You still look professional, just relaxed.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/23/06 7:52am
Msg #140183

Re: I think I gave the wrong impression...

In the office I use for helocs (law office), the lawyer and his secretary are dressed nicely. She might wear jeans on Friday. He'll have on a white shirt, suit pants. In the local title companies people wear dressy, dressy slacks, suits, etc. We should dress accordingly whether in their offices or in homes.

My good LOs wear something similar to what I mention below.

I have three uniforms this year:

-a casual white Talbot's collared knit/slacks/beige-gold mules

-long cotton blue dress/matching over-blouse/beige-gold sandals

-pink linen three piece suit/beige-gold pumps

Loving the comfort of denim, I also have a two piece denim set from Chico's which I do not wear to work in, though it cost more than any of the three above did. Denim is still "out" for work places in Texas.

I also think that age/body style dictates the appropriateness of dress. I do not think my bare arms or upper thights are something that need to be shared in borrower's homes. However, I think young women who wear shorter skirts, no hose, or sleeveless blouses look beautiful.

Reply by Jason on 8/23/06 8:45am
Msg #140193

Jahari: you are still wrong, wrong, wrong. Read Joan's post n/m

Reply by Ernest__CT on 8/23/06 10:57am
Msg #140216

Never, ever jeans. Ever. Period. n/m

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/23/06 11:52am
Msg #140240

Re: I think I gave the wrong impression...

** in my opinion, no harm with a nice t-shirt. You still look professional, just relaxed.**
Maybe if you're meeting with your best friend, but not with the average client. T-shirts are never acceptable. You should at least wear what has been accepted as "business casual" any time your meet with clients.

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/23/06 11:57am
Msg #140243

Re: I think I gave the wrong impression...

Three companies come to mind right off the bat, that check on what their closers wear, amongst other questions. You are representing them. Morgan Stanley, for one, deals with hi-end borrowers, I'd like to see somebody show up in jeans to close one of these! lol

Reply by Kate/CA on 8/23/06 1:17pm
Msg #140272

You need to be prepared

You don't always know what your borrowers are going to be like. I had an application to do saturday. Very nice people, beautiful home. Their net worth was over $12,000,000.00. I had met him before, I'm glad I was dressed appropriately when I went. They showed me around their house and property, she gave me some treats for my new puppy (Pomerian), hadn't been able to fine any small enough. She has two new Yorkies.

I'm sure the loan officer will check on what type of service I gave these people. The funny thing was, the appointment was schedule a few weeks ago and the borrower wanted to postpone it. He called me up thursday, he forgot which company and the number of the company. I gave him everything he needed.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/23/06 12:52pm
Msg #140259

**I hate buying clothes**

Can you teach this to my wife? lol

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/23/06 2:09pm
Msg #140287

John - it's really not fair ...

Yes, I hate buying clothes. I DESPISE SHOPPING, PERIOD.

However ... I am married to a man who considers shopping some kind of recreational sport. He loves shopping for clothes and food. Don't come anywhere near this house when he has to shop for a new car - he loves THAT the best! Spends months on it.

So, see? Nobody gets to win. 1 shopper and 1 non-shopper per household!

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/23/06 3:13pm
Msg #140303

Re: John - it's really not fair ...

>>>I DESPISE SHOPPING, PERIOD.

However ... I am married to a man who considers shopping some kind of recreational sport. He loves shopping for clothes and food. Don't come anywhere near this house when he has to shop for a new car - he loves THAT the best! Spends months on it.

So, see? Nobody gets to win. 1 shopper and 1 non-shopper per household!<<<


LOL

I too despise shopping. I don't mind doing it online IF the site is clear and concise.

My husband also loves to shop. I prefer not to go into stores with him as it takes to long to get in and out -- he has to look at everything and lacks the ability to stick to the list.

I buy all my clothes online. I love being able to buy 4 skirts at a time, in the same size and different colors, and all without leaving my home. It's my idea of heaven.

My mother and sisters all have the shopping gene and can't understand what happened to me.

Reply by Mia on 8/23/06 10:09am
Msg #140211

You say you are in northern Michigan -- where?
What do you consider "Northern Michigan"?

You won't see me wearing shoes in the winter time (only boots).
We get approx. 250+ inches of snow in the winter, and sometimes
it will be below zero. I always take my boots off at the door -- even
when the house isn't that clean. Sure I've left with "crap" on the
bottom of my socks.... but, this is what we have to put up with in
this business.

You have to dress for the "area". Clean, ironed clothes. I don't wear
jeans but, I don't wear dresses either -- pants suits are my mainstay.

Reply by Susan/CA on 8/23/06 10:46am
Msg #140215

I dress in nice slacks or skirts, however, I work at a law firm and we have casual days when we can where jeans etc. So if I get a last minute call I sometimes end up at the borrowers in capris or jeans . . I hate going in jeans! I feel too casual. . .

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/23/06 11:44am
Msg #140235

Please do not even consider wearing jeans and tee-shirts!!! If I showed up at a closing attorney's office or he showed up at my place and he was dressed that way, I would be insulted right down to his designer gym shoes! Just because he comes to me, does not make it right to wear weekend clothing. I guess I'm gearing this response to Jahari's post.

It doesn't matter how clean a tee shirt is or what color the 'jeans' are, the professional/biz casual look and the relaxed tee shirt and blue jeans look are worlds apart. Aren't sketchers gym shoes?

Jahari's profile pic looks like a tourist on vacation, not remotely close to a professional pic in my opinion. I could throw up a bra-less image of myself on a beach too, but I'm thinking - do I want to come across as a tramp or look business-like as the owner of my business, which services the public. There is a place and time for everything...Like Hooter's outfit. It's clean, sporty, maybe I'll try that one at somebody's home.
What difference does it make what you wear to an office (suit) or to a borrower's home(jeans&tee shirt). You are doing the same job!
I wear fashionable boots in the winter to closings, but that doesn't mean my thigh high boots would be proper in a borrowers home as long as they look neat! Or how about my corset for summer with a leather mini-skirt and fishnets? It covers everything and is neat.

You are representing the company that hired you as a professional loan signer. Draw the line at biz casual. Leave the play clothes for Your time.

As far as my business choices go...it's always the same no matter where I close - biz casual...long dresses, blazers and slacks - summer, sandals or flats and during winter, heeled boots. I love the calf length thin heeled boots with long woolly dresses or skirts, lots of cool styles and colors.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/23/06 7:18pm
Msg #140354

Hey Charm...

I think the photos in the Hooters outfit, leather mini, fishnets, etc would be a welcome addition to our football site!

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/23/06 8:23pm
Msg #140371

Re: Hey Charm...

LOL...I'll think about it, maybe I can rassle the cheerleader pic out of Fx's paws

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 8/23/06 4:07pm
Msg #140322

Skirt - nice blouse
Slacks - nice blouse
BLAZER or sweater if it's chilly
Dress boots, no heels for me - nice pair of flats.
Occasionally a very nice pair of sandals when the weather is extremely hot (triple digits)

Reply by kathy/ca on 8/23/06 4:43pm
Msg #140328

Its a fact, when we dress professionally, we carry ourselves

& come across more professionally because we FEEL more professional. Image is very important in this business and if we appear to be a professional, they will have more faith in our abilities the minute they open their door . I would never think to wear shorts, sandles, t-shirts or flip flops to a business meeting which is what a loan signing is, in my opinion. For me, it's slacks, nice blouse or sweater, a little conservative jewelry, mid high heels.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 8/23/06 6:21pm
Msg #140346

Re: This is not the first time this

topic has been covered. I didn't understand the need to ask the question the first time, nor each successive time someone asks the proper dress attire question. 99.9% of the time, we are the only face-to-face contact Borrowers have during this whole loan process.

Just because we are going into their home in a less than formal Bank/Real Estate/law office, etc. setting of 10 years ago, doesn't matter one bit -- the loan papers Borrowers are signing are the same and no less important or legal than before it became the norm for loans to be signed in the comfort of their home or place of employment. The comfort of in-home signings is for the purpose of the Borrowers.

It is common for Borrowers to greet us wearing shorts and/or jeans, tees and even barefoot -- we are the professional presenting the loan and representing the loan officer, broker, title company, etc., and as such, are the one with the image to project -- this image comes across in how we carry ourselves -- personal appearance, clothing, shoes, hair, as well as remembering why we are there and possessing loan document knowledge.

Don't insult the Borrowers or embarrass yourself. Save the jeans and tees for your own home -- not the Borrowers home.

Reply by hcampersFL on 8/23/06 9:24pm
Msg #140407

Re: This is not the first time this- It is the first time

that I remember anyone admitting that they wore jeans to a signing. To top it off they think that is OKAY. This is why this post has gotten so long.