Posted by Ohiolady on 8/6/06 11:16am
Msg #137331

Elderly lady forced to sell home?

Had a closing last week that was going very smoothly intill the elderly seller signed the last document and then broke down in tears. She was very upset and said they were putting her in a nursing home. Could she have been forced into this by her kids? Never had a closing like this in 7 years in the business. Any comments?

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 8/6/06 11:39am
Msg #137333

Re: Elderly lady forced to sell home? This is very sad,

were her children present at the signing? May I ask her age? You know I hate to even say this but it is none of our business, sadly. Did you ask her why she was going into a home, once she broke down and shared her sadness with you. I'm assuming since she was signing, she was totally alert......Perhaps she has fallen lately, been ill, needs to be in an assisted living type of environment ....it can be very so sad to grow old....And no I have never had a signing like that but several months ago I had a reverse mortgage where the signer had lost her hubby suddenly after some 50 years of marriage and she was left to deal with issues she had never dealt with before, she was lost but had spoken with her children and they wanted her to do what would make her happy and all she wanted was to remain in her house until she passed. She loved going to the market seeing the staff there, getting her hair done and she had a little dog. LilBit and she just wanted to care for herself and LilBit.

Reply by Ohiolady on 8/6/06 12:06pm
Msg #137336

Re: Elderly lady forced to sell home? This is very sad,

She was 76 and ran out of the closing room before I could say anything to her. One of her kids ran after her to talk to her. When I drove away, she was still crying. Before she ran off she said she might as well be dead because her life was over. My husband and I have recently started a retirement account and we are working hard to pay off our house early. We plan on doing a reverse mortgage when we get old also. We both want to make sure that if we need assistance when we our older that we can afford to pay someone to make home visits to care for us. We want to remain in our home and not go to a nursing home. Seeing stuff like this really makes you think more about the future.

Reply by ewing2surf on 8/6/06 12:04pm
Msg #137334

I hate it when that happens. Were you the only one there?

I had a similar circumstance several weeks ago after very ill signer signed a DNR by mark. Afterward, his spouse broke down in tears and sobbed uncontrollably on my shoulder for several minutes. Very sad.

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/6/06 12:06pm
Msg #137335

At this point it would be a guessing game.
There are some factors that need to be known such as her age, physical limitations and what kind of care she needs. There are many reasons elderly go into nursing homes, it's sad when there can't be an arrangement to live with one of her (his) children for whatever reason.
I am interested to know what the other signer's interests where in the closing as you stated after the elderly seller signed the last doc and to whom the proceeds are going.

If you determined that she was not signing under duress and was cognizant of the closing and what it meant, there is nothing else you can do as a notary. It's very difficult to keep your emotions in check over some of these cases and keep your professional hat on - so hard.

You can only pray on your own for her and others in the same position and hope that her money will go to her support, medical bills and housing for the rest of her life. She was probably overcome with the fact that she was moving from her home into a new and scary setting. For the elderly experiencing this, it can be devastating and they grieve the process.

Back in the 40's nuclear families lived together, I grew up in Chicago where the nuclear family were all on one block, when my eldest Aunt moved away. We were devastated and lost.
Back then we had insane asylums not 'old people homes'. They came about when it became a strain for on their children for various reasons.
When I was a kid, we never even thought about shipping Grandma off. It was discussed though among her kids as to who 'could' take it on when (if) necessary.

There have been some nice improvements since these nursing homes have been investigated, some horrible stories came out of that.
Now they have these assisted living communities where active seniors can enjoy there late years with some dignity. Baby boomers today are healthier going into there twilight years and hanging onto their homes much longer. As indicative by what I personally think is going to be a reverse mortgage boom.
I have a huge heart for the elderly and I would adopt a Grandma or Grandpa any day of the week to keep them out of the old fashioned poorly run and dangerous old folk's homes.

Sorry for rambling on, but this is a subject that I could debate forever and I will never understand how materials things and having the best of everything and mortgaging your life to the hilt has become more important than taking care of those that took care of us when we needed them - now I'm done...I'm finding it hard to fight back the tears.

Reply by Ohiolady on 8/6/06 12:18pm
Msg #137339

I wasn't in the closing room alone, there were 2 realtors and the buyer along with the seller's children. I beleive it had something to do with her eyesight but she was definetly of sound mind. The money was going for her care in the nursing home. I can't help but wonder how much cheaper could the nursing home have been then her condo? My step mother just past away at 86 and she worked as a caregiver right up intill her death. She went to elderly peoples homes and cooked, cleaned etc and helped them to remain independent. She made good money too! How much could it cost to have someone visit her at her condo several times a week to help her out! I know, not my business. I kept my cool then went to my car and put my sun glasses on, then the tears starting flowing out of my eyes. I hate when closings make me cry. I've had closings when the borrower's or seller's cried in the past, but not many that made me cry!

Reply by MICarole on 8/7/06 6:03am
Msg #137409

When my husband was sick, I still miss him, I tried having someone come in to take care of him while I worked. I had made a promise to him NO MORE HOSPITALS, well it took 85% of my income, so that had to stop, the rest of my income went for his meds.

Well to make a long story short, I quit working outside our home, and took care of him full time. But, at least I kept my promise, and he died in his own bed in our home, with his cats and family around him.

That was five years ago this coming Saturday, and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't thank God for the time I had with him. But, financially it drained me and I had to file bankruptcy. (That hurt)

Reply by MelissaCT on 8/7/06 9:35am
Msg #137425

My grandmother had to sell her home a number of years ago. She was in FL, her 2nd husband passed & she only had an elderly cousin a few towns over. He had to show her how to write a check & helped her pay the bills, etc. She had an episode of vertigo & fell & was laid up for a while. One of my aunts flew down to FL to be with her while she recouperated.

This was a situation where she had to sell her home, because of the care involved. She was involved in the process & moved in with her oldest daughter. After a couple years, however, she was getting to be way too much to handle -- sneaking food into her room in the middle of the night, causing mischief if she was alone for any length of time (such as a trip to the grocery store or post office). My aunt put her into a lutheran home for women for a couple years. The home was an assisted living facility, but they were unable to dispense medication other than tylenol.

In FL, she had been prescribed all kinds of meds. Upon seeing a new Dr. up north, it was determined that she didn't need 3/4 of the meds she was taking, including high bp medication (which she didn't need by any stretch of the imagination). When her health got to the point that she needed nursing care, she was moved closer to my mom & another sister, where she's been for several years now. She's 96 & healthy, although her mind is pretty well gone.

Part of selling the house is due to Medicaid rules about disposal of assets within a short timeframe of being admitted, etc. It's best to do that before nursing care is a necessity, as sad as that may be.

Your signer may have still been alert & knew whayt & why it was happening but that doesn't lessen the blow. It's very difficult to take on an elderly relative. Years ago, women didn't work outside of home. It was easier with a network of family to care for family. It's not like that today. Good and bad comes along with that for children and the aged.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/6/06 12:23pm
Msg #137340

The ability to allow another to share is clouded only

by one's inability to accept. As a card carrying member of the over the hill gang I have seen this and while it's a very sad situation a warm voice and compassion are called for. Most want to pass on in their very own homes where everything is theirs, where they recognize everything and are comfortable. We're only afraid of those things which we do not understand and it is a big help to talk to someone about our fears, unfortunately it's alot easier to speak to a stranger because we'll most likely never see them again therefore we're not anxious about how they'll feel about our words of uncertainty. I listen intently, touch their hand and tell them I understand because there but for the grace of God.....

Sometimes we misread tears, sometimes they're tears of comfort knowing that we have finally gotten things in place. I agree that ideally it would be wonderful if we could live with those we've raised BUT more importantly most of us don't want that. In our hearts we want them to enjoy their lives rather than be saddened by watching us hunt and peck for easier ways to do what used to come naturally to us. Rejoice when you actually meet one of us that is making plans for our "future" as you are talking to a live piece of history that has forgotten more than most know. Feel appreciated because you've brought peace to one that has finally made steps to insure a future for others (if not ourselves). You have been a blessing to these folks because you have made an otherwise difficult decision easy with your compassion. Forget about UPL and keeping that back ladder straight, there are other ways to be "professional". Like a Marine you must be flexible and adapt, while you may be a bit uncomfortable know that your mission is to make a difficult transition as smooth as possible. Do all of this and you will indeed sleep well and rest easy. You won't even realize how much you've grown through the experience until you too face difficult decisions and hopefully an SA with compassion and heart will be sitting across your table from you.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 8/6/06 1:13pm
Msg #137345

Re: All of the comments in the thread are excellent-

76 in my mind is not old, my grandmother lived to be 103 years old and her daughter my aunt, my mother's sister aging her herself when grammie was in her 90's was forced to place grammie in a home, my aunt had poor health herself and could no longer assist in caring for grammie, grammie also kept falling while bathing, auntie just could no longer handle her. Grammie also was really losing her eye sight. Grammie was fit to be tied when she was placed in the home, auntie would go see her and grammie would not even speak to her, auntie would see her every single day only to have grammie not speak to her. Grammie spoke no english only french but the home and town actually where his all took place french was a common language among many so grammie got by just fine and what a spark of fire she was until her dying days, this woman clean houses for a living well into her early 90's, she only began to decline after she stopped working and stayed home....

Reply by MBCA on 8/6/06 1:24pm
Msg #137348

Re: Dear God! Please let me die in my own bed, in my own

house! You are right, we don't know all the circumstances surrounding this situation and I too am getting up there (where ever that is?) My mother was a nurse in a convalescent home and I would not like to end up there whether the place was good or bad! Even if our children think it's the best thing for us (keep mother from falling down and hurting herself, or what if she forgets to eat?). I'd rather have someone come in once a day and check on me or if you're afraid I might burn the house down, take the stove out of the house and just leave the microwave (don't forget "meals on wheels!" I don't want to be talked down to or told what to do by someone I don't know or or may not even like! They'll tell us when to go to bed and a lot of times (if you don't have a private room) you might end up with a very unpleasant roommate! Guess what, we're all going to die anyway, so can't we chose where we wish to live our last days? Whether it's love or greed that drives the relatives to make life changing decisions for us I'd rather be free and not feel like I'm an inmate at Pelican Bay!

Reply by Jason on 8/6/06 6:33pm
Msg #137368

May not be bad thing

Last mo I notarized some docs for 85 yr old lady living at home. She produced state ID card.

Lady was VERY frail.
Driver lic expired years ago. Can't pass test. She still drives to grocery store!!!!!
Hands VERY shakey. Reflexes were crap.

Healthy but frail.
She should be in assisted living.

Her children should make her move b4 she kills herself + a carload of kids.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 8/6/06 6:38pm
Msg #137369

Re: Jason this indeed another way to look at this, I too

have seen many older drivers who maybe should be off the road....

Reply by Ohiolady on 8/7/06 9:05am
Msg #137417

Re: May not be bad thing

True, I don't know all the circumstances in this case. When I was six I was waiting at the crosswalk for the light to turn green (I only lived across the street and we had traffic safety at school (grew up in FLA) when I stepped onto the street an 80 year old women hit me with her car. She admitted that she was to old to drive and said she would never drive again. She told the police that she accidentally hit the gas. I was knocked out and had some scrapes but that was all that happened. My mom told the women she would not sue her if she promised not to drive anymore. The lady had a really nice car and could probably afford to have someone run errands for her.

Reply by newlysmomva on 8/7/06 2:28pm
Msg #137498

Re: May not be bad thing

God, I hope I go before I get to the stage where I need someone else to take care of me!