Posted by Elisa Lewis on 8/17/06 5:01pm
Msg #139137

Has anyone ever requested

both a jurat and acknowledgment on a notarization for an adoption letter? I notarized a letter for someone last night. I stamped the letter with my jurat stamp. Today they are also requesting an acknowledgment notarized for the letter. Can I give them this? Has anyone ever had this request before? If so, what did you do?

Reply by Brad_CA on 8/17/06 5:28pm
Msg #139143

They need to select one or the other. If they do not know which one, you need to have them contact the originator of the document. You may not tell them which to use. Doing so would mean that you are unlawfully practicing law. Most adoption papers in California require a Jurat.
I have done many. * I am not an Attorney*

Reply by Becca_FL on 8/17/06 5:31pm
Msg #139145

>>>They need to select one or the other. <<<

BS. If they want both, they get both and you charge accordingly.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/17/06 5:31pm
Msg #139146

When you say you stamped the letter with your jurat stamp, don't you mean you completed the notary certificate which would, naturally, include using your seal.

Sure you can do two separate certificates for one document if that is what they are asking for. It isn't up to us to decide which certificate to use, so if they want one of each, then we can comply.

Incidentally, you do not notarize a letter or any other document, you notarize the signer's signature. A notarization indicates that you have identified the signer who is personally appearing in front of you at the time of the notarization.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/17/06 5:39pm
Msg #139147

Two are okay in my book.

Reply by Elisa/CA on 8/17/06 5:40pm
Msg #139148

Yes, I did complete the notary certificate. Thank you all for your advice. I just wasn't sure if I could do both. I now know to charge him another fee for the acknowledgment!

Reply by Brad_CA on 8/17/06 5:49pm
Msg #139150

Elisa, remember that the three that replied are not in California. You may want to call the Secretary Of State Office before you do both. Only a suggestion of course.

Reply by Elisa/CA on 8/17/06 5:55pm
Msg #139151

You're right...thanks Brad!

Reply by Gerry_VT on 8/17/06 6:58pm
Msg #139170

Checking with Secretary of State

Brad suggested checking with the Secretary of State, which is never a bad idea. However, I would be amazed if the basic nature of an oath and an acknowledgment wasn't the same in every state (OK, maybe not Louisiana). In an oath the affiant swears whatever the notary tells him to swear (most often, that a document is true or that the affiant will faithfully execute an office). In an acknowledgment, the signer indicates he intends to be bound by the instrument he just signed. If the document is both true and something the signer wants to be bound by, there's no reason why he couldn't both swear and acknowledge.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 8/18/06 7:33am
Msg #139286

Interesting! VT and CT differ.

"In an acknowledgment, the signer indicates he intends to be bound by the instrument he just signed." CT's Notary Manual says "An acknowledgment is ... a formal declaration before an authorized official by the person who executed an instrument that such instrument is his/her free act and deed." Maybe I'm seeing a difference where none exists, but it sounds as if an ack in VT might have more enforcement power for somebody saying that they will perform some action.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 8/18/06 9:28am
Msg #139302

Re: Interesting! VT and CT differ.

I was not giving the exact wording of the acknowledgement, I was describing the effect of the acknowledgement. "Vermont law does not presently require a particular form for acknowledgment" but the acknowledgement offered in the VT notary public manual contains the words ". . .he (she) executed the same to be his (her) free act and deed." So the Vermont and Connecticut notary manuals seem similar. I could imagine a case where there would be a difference between an oath and an acknowledgement. Suppose I sold my property, and the legal description was based on a survey paid for by the buyer, and the area was 2 acres. Now, I happen to sincerely believe the surveyor was mistaken, and the actual area is 3 acres. I couldn't swear to the correctness of the deed, but I might still want to enter into the contract (as long as I was getting enough money) so I could execute and acknowledge the deed.

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/17/06 6:09pm
Msg #139154

Not exactly what she means

In CA 1/1/06 the law changed so that acknowledgements and jurats have to use exact presecribed wording, previously it could be "substantially the same"... as a result lots of certificates running around were suddenly invalid and so notaries got stamps with the certificate wording on them.

A "jurat stamp", not a notary seal. My instructor has one and showed it off in the class.

So if a letter has some blank space on the bottom you can hit it with a jurat stamp rather than attaching a seperate certificate.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/17/06 6:23pm
Msg #139158

Re: Not exactly what she means

Ah! I did read "jurat stamp" and somehow thought notary seal. I forgot about the stamps with the jurat wording on them.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 8/17/06 9:16pm
Msg #139202

Is there not an attorney involved in the transaction who can make the correct decision? I flipped through the handbook, and I interpret it as being one or the other, but not both. But there is nothing that says that they can't have two letters and do a jurat on one and an acknowledgment on the other then the attorney decides which one to use.

Someone correct me if I am wrong ....

Reply by Brad_CA on 8/18/06 12:30am
Msg #139253

That is right Glenn. Some of these forms are State forms. Also, some of these adoptions from China and Russia use Federal Forms that sometimes do not have the correct verbage or they try to blend an acknowledgement and Jurat together on the same certificate.

Reply by JAM/CA on 8/18/06 12:49am
Msg #139262

I do many loans for TX, LA and other Southern States that request hybrid notarizations. The NNA says no problem. SOS says, no problem.
If Lender request a Jurat and ACK on one document, I oblige. Most times I have to attach two loose certificates (Jurat & ACK) with proper notarial verbiage.