Posted by Stamper_WI on 8/20/06 5:49am
Msg #139606
Somewhere in my meanderings...
....I saw a statement you can give to the borrower to read. It is about the role of the notary in the signing process. Anyone have that or know where I may have seen that?
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Reply by LIZ/VA on 8/20/06 9:33am
Msg #139611
I am looking for you., as I have seen it too. Thought it was in NNA Signing Agent Course, but so far haven't found it there. Will keep you posted if I find it. Good luck. Have a great day! :-)
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Reply by Poppy on 8/20/06 9:46am
Msg #139613
Good Morning Stamper
NNA has a statement similar to this as a fold out business card. the back of the card has what they call notarization must. As usual with NNA you don't have the benefit of knowing what it actually says until you buy it. But here's the blurb they offer to intice you to buy.
"Generate repeat business by making your name, address and phone number handy for your valued clients.
Fold-out cards include "Notarization Musts' inside.
Our Deluxe Business Cards identify you as a professional, skilled Notary and a member of the National Notary Association. And they help you explain basic requirements to your clients with six "Notarization Musts" - explanations of requirements for every notarization.
Includes these "Notarization Musts" inside...
The document signer must personally appear...
The Notary must identify the signer...
The Notary must be impartial and disinterested...
The Notary must not certify a copy of a birth certificate or other vital record...
The Notary must make a record...
The notary must hold and scan the document..."
Not sure if that's what you're looking for. Hopefully someone will show up with the wording. Good Luck! Have a great day!
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Reply by RickinVA on 8/20/06 10:00am
Msg #139615
How about something like this:
DISCLOSURE STATEMENT & HOLD HARMLESS STATEMENT
Please be advised that I, xxxxxx, as a Notary Public, do not represent you the borrower, or the lender/title company of this loan. This Notary Public IS NOT a legal representative of or for either the borrower or the lender/title company and therefore cannot and WILL NOT render any legal advice or give any opinion of the loan or its terms during the course of the loan signing. This Notary Public is NOT a closing agent, settlement agent, loan officer, or the like, for this lender, or ANY company. The role of this Notary Public is to facilitate the signing of your loan closing papers, witness your signing (including notarizing those documents) a few critical documents contained in the loan closing papers, and return the loan closing papers back to the lender. If any questions arise during the signing of your loan closing papers, please contact your lender immediately! Personal and or professional opinions about this loan WILL NOT be given! I am a Notary Public, bound by the laws of the xxx of xxx to serve the constituents of the xxx of xxx and to remain impartial to any transaction. I will neither encourage, nor discourage, any person from signing any document, nor will I give any constituent any advice, declaration, opinion or direction regarding any document.
Therefore, I cannot and WILL NOT give any legal or personal advice during this transaction. By default, you agree to hold harmless this Notary Public for this loan signing process in any way, shape, form, or fashion! If you choose, you may retain an attorney (at your expense) to handle the signing of your loan papers. If you do not understand or agree with this hold harmless statement please do not sign it.
________________ _____________________________
Date Borrowers Signature
______________________________
Print Name
________________ _______________________________
Date Borrowers Signature
_______________________________
Print Name
Rick
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Reply by J M Shannon on 8/20/06 1:41pm
Msg #139629
I read The last post on this subject by Rick. The wording seems great but I am just wondering can we as notories require a person or persons to sign this before we begin the document signing process. I am fairly new to all of this so I am still looking and reading all sorts of articles on things like this. I personally would like to know that it is ok for me to print something like this up and possible protect me from those sue happy people out there.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 8/20/06 1:54pm
Msg #139634
**possible protect me from those sue happy people out there. **
Fearing the "sue happy" is a good indication you might not be cut out for this work.
I don't mean that ugly. It's just a thought.
It's my personal opinion that lawsuits are feared way too much because of the National Notary Plant Mfg. Company.
Go do your job, don't give legal advice and if you don't know what "legal advice" is exactly, go to a lawyer, pay him $150 and get counseled on it well.
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Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/20/06 3:06pm
Msg #139643
Thanks for the responses. What I was looking for was the one that simply put what the notary's role was in the signing. Impartial with no interest in the outcome of the loan kind of stuff. Short and sweet.
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Reply by Brenda/CA on 8/20/06 4:26pm
Msg #139652
Re: Stamper
Try the following past messages for ideas on "Hold Harmless" forms.
117609
117638
91815
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Reply by kathy/ca on 8/20/06 11:54pm
Msg #139683
Stamper, if it is a Hold Harmless Agr you need, I use a very
detailed one that no borrower has ever refused to sign. It provides a level of comfort having it signed. If you would like a copy of mine, I will be glad to forward it to you.
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Reply by CaliNotary on 8/20/06 11:12pm
Msg #139682
"The wording seems great but I am just wondering can we as notories require a person or persons to sign this before we begin the document signing process."
No, you can't require it. THAT would be a good way to get yourself sued, if you adjourned a signing because they wouldn't sign a form that had nothing to do with their loan.
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Reply by kathy/ca on 8/20/06 11:58pm
Msg #139684
I have never required it and present it at the end of the
signing so it does not appear as though the signing is predicated upon it being signed, because it is not.
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Reply by LynnNC on 8/20/06 5:56pm
Msg #139658
I have been required to use one . . .
. . . by a few signing services. The following is an example:
XXX Signing Service Settlement Services LLC
1234 Elm Ave.
Raleigh, NC 275XX
Office: 123-456-7890; Fax: 123-456-7891
WITNESS ONLY SIGNING DISCLOSURE
Dear Borrower(s),
This notice is to inform you that the individual closing your loan is NOT AN ATTORNEY. He or she is a notary working as an independent contractor for XXXSigning Service. The title company or attorney whom you or your loan officer has selected has engaged our company to perform a witness only signing of your loan documents.
Because of our limited involvement, neither our company nor the notary was involved in the preparation of your loan. The notary’s role in this closing will be limited to verifying your identity and the identity of any other individual listed on title to the property. He or she will briefly point out the important terms of your loan. It is the notary/independent contractor’s responsibility to ensure that all your documents are executed correctly, witnessed, acknowledged/notarized, and returned to the attorney or title company in a timely manner.
Please note that the notary cannot give you any legal advice whatsoever in this transaction. If you have any questions about your loan documents please consult your loan officer. Should you need any legal advice please consult an attorney.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Upon reading the above we the undersigned borrowers acknowledge that neither XXXSigning Service nor the notary witnessing the signing of our loan documents have any interest or involvement in the origination of our loan. We also acknowledge that they have not given any legal advice in this transaction.
ACKNOWLEDGMENT
In witness thereof, the undersigned has set his/her hand and seal.
X____________ ______________
Borrower – please print Borrower – please sign Date
X____________ ______________
Borrower – please print Borrower – please sign Date
State of North Carolina
County of
On this day of , 2006, before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the aforesaid County and State, personally appeared before me , proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) described in and who executed the foregoing instrument. Witness my hand and official seal.
Notary Public
My Commission Expires:
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Reply by NCLisa on 8/20/06 10:52pm
Msg #139680
This is what I use
NON-ATTORNEY DISCLOSURE
STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA
COUNTY OF
RE: Borrowers:
Property Address:
I/We understand that the notary signing agent, ___________________, in this transaction is acting on behalf of the Lender and/or Title Company and that the notary signing agent is not an attorney and therefore cannot provide legal advice or opinion on the documents which are included in the loan package. If we have questions concerning the legal import of the documents we understand and agree that we will either consult our own attorney or the lender.
______________________________________
______________________________________
STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA, COUNTY OF _______________________
I, , a Notary Public of and State aforesaid, certify that personally appeared before me this day and acknowledged the execution of the foregoing instrument.
Witness my hand and official stamp or seal, this day of 2006.
___________________________________
Notary Public
My Commission Expires:
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Reply by Linda Cunningham on 8/21/06 12:39am
Msg #139686
Re: This is what I use
I'm a notary newbie, so everyone please forgive me, if I seem a little confused about this document. I didn't think we could notarize anything that benefited us in any way. If someone else notarizes it, okay, but it would seem that a notary's impartiality is compromised by notarizing something in which they are involved. Can all of you guide me as to what is correct? Thanks!
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Reply by kathy/ca on 8/21/06 1:01am
Msg #139688
This is not a document that we notarize, it is just signed
by the borrower holding us harmless should the loan not fund on time etc, and states that we are just the notary, there to witness their signatures and ID them and make sure that they undertand the basic nature of the documents in the loan package and that they sign where needed.
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 1:17am
Msg #139689
Re: This is not a document that we notarize, it is just signed
Hi Kathy! The post, to which I responded, was asking for a notarization at the bottom of the document. That's why I questioned if we could do it. I learn so much from all of you, and I appreciate everyone's advice. Thanks!
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 1:36am
Msg #139690
Re: This is not a document that we notarize, it is just signed
I'm laughing at my last post. Is there such a word as "notarization"? Oh well, silly me!
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Reply by BrendaTx on 8/21/06 7:03am
Msg #139699
"Notarization" is a word, LC (:>) n/m
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Reply by BrendaTx on 8/21/06 7:00am
Msg #139698
Re: This is what I use - Linda
Interesting thought, Linda. I think having them sign it, if using the form at all, would be sufficient.
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Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/21/06 7:53am
Msg #139701
How's this?
I am thinking that they initial it for your records and provide them with a copy in their file.
Notice
"I am a notary working as an independent contractor. The title company or attorney whom you or your loan officer has selected has engaged me to perform a witness only signing of your loan documents.
I was not involved in the preparation of your loan. My role in this closing will be limited to verifying your identity and the identity of any other individual listed on title to the property. I will briefly point out the important terms of your loan. It is my responsibility to ensure that all your documents are executed correctly, witnessed, acknowledged/notarized, and returned to the attorney or title company in a timely manner.
Please note that I cannot give you any legal advice whatsoever in this transaction. If you have any questions about your loan documents please consult your loan officer. Should you need any legal advice please consult an attorney."
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 8:07am
Msg #139706
Re: How's this?
Hi Stamper! That one sounds okay to me to use. I was just concerned about the one that ask for the "notarization" at the bottom. It was a document that seemed "beneficial" to the notary, and therefore put the term "impartiality" in jeopardy becasue of personal interest. I'm so strict with my train of thought, but I'm really trying to strive to be a good notary. Thanks for your help!
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Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/21/06 8:24am
Msg #139711
Re: How's this?
Just trying to stress the impartiality part. My interest in it is to cover myself. If there are problems with the loan itself down the road, my role is clearly stated at the onset. I think it shows diligence on my part. As the signing agent, I am the only face to face contact the borrowers have in the process. That could be construed as being a representative of the lender on the borrowers part. Its human nature.
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 8:31am
Msg #139712
Re: How's this?
Oh Stamper, I totally agree that we need something to protect ourselves. I was just concerned about the "notarization" part of it. It seems others on the board are presenting a "Hold Harmless" document that doesn't require the notary to notarize the paper. What do you think? Would that be a better way to go?
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Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/21/06 9:06am
Msg #139718
Re: How's this?
I would not notarize it. Absolutely not. Having the borrowers initial it indicates the they saw the notice. Just my opinion. I am not an attorney, etc.
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 7:55am
Msg #139702
Re: This is what I use - Linda
Good morning, Brenda! I'm glad "notarization" is a word; I wasn't sure. Anyway, about the document, did you mean that you would have the borrower(s) sign it, but leave the notarization part at the bottom not filled in? If so, don't you think it would be an invalid piece of paper, and might get rejected? Again, thanks to all, as I am sooooooo.....new, and still learning!
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Reply by NCLisa on 8/21/06 8:05am
Msg #139705
Re: This is what I use
This was drawn by an attorney. It is not benefitting me, it is a notarized statement from the borrower that I am there as a NSA, not an attorney, and they understand that. Benefitting me would be if I were making money. This is a protection, not a benefit.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 8/21/06 8:11am
Msg #139708
Re: This is what I use
**This was drawn by an attorney. **
Thanks for that input, NCLisa.
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 8:19am
Msg #139710
Re: This is what I use
Hi Lisa! Okay, I don't mean to offend, but the reason I questioned it is because of this statement in the NSA certification course from the NNA. It says: The Notary's impartiality is compromised when the Notary has a personal interest in a transaction, whether this interest is termed "financial" (i.e resulting in an actual or potential monetary gain or savings for the Notary) or "beneficial" (i.e. resulting in an actual or potential gain for the Notary that is not monetary.) Can you ask your attorney is this statement would apply to this document?
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Reply by NCLisa on 8/21/06 8:36am
Msg #139713
Re: This is what I use
If it were a correction agreement that had my name on it, I could not notarize it, because that would make me a party to the transaction, as an NSA, I am not a party.
The attorney knew what this was used for, and he himself does witness closings and uses this same form, and he notarizes the form. He is very particular and very ethical. There is no gain for the NSA. It is just clearly a form signed by the borrowers stating that they understand the capacity that the NNA is there in, which again is a protection.
I would take everything you've learned from the NNA and toss it out the window. A non monetary gain for the notary would be that they stand to inherit the property, or that there is some piece of the pie in it for them. Not that they are protecting themselves from future litigation.
I know what I can and can't do under the law. I may not be an attorney, but as a Certified Paralegal (not online) I do know what I am doing.
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 8:43am
Msg #139714
Re: This is what I use
Okay, Lisa, I'll take your word for it. Thanks for the help in resolving my question.
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Reply by PAW on 8/21/06 9:05am
Msg #139717
Re: This is what I use
I too use a disclaimer notice that is signed by the borrowers and their signatures are notarized by myself. Like you, I had it drawn by an attorney to make sure it complied with the necessary legalities if ever questioned.
There is no benefit (financial or otherwise) gained by the notary in presenting a disclosure, since they (the borrowers) are acknowledging the NSA's role and their responsibilities.
In Florida, there are a few notary certificates that are maintained by the notary for their own protection, such as the various statements for signer's without ID.
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Reply by Stamper_WI on 8/21/06 9:09am
Msg #139720
Re: This is what I use
Do you keep the original? or send copies with the doc's back to the lender?
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Reply by LC/AZ on 8/21/06 9:15am
Msg #139721
Re: This is what I use
Thanks to you, Paw and N/C Lisa for helping me to learn. I was concerned because of the statement in NSA study course, but I'm going to put my faith in what you are saying, and should I ever come across the document on a signing, I won't be afraid to notarize it myself.
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Reply by kathy/ca on 8/21/06 9:30am
Msg #139725
It is unlikely you will ever come across it in a loan pkg...
as it is a document between you and the borrower that you ask the borrower to sign for YOU. I always present it and ask (and have never been turned down) at the end of the loan signing, if they will read it and sign "holding me harmless" should the loan not close, not fund on time, or otherwise be held up. I do not however, notarize their signatures. This is just how I do it, everyone has their own ways.
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