Posted by Joy223 on 8/25/06 1:34pm
Msg #140931

This is just so wrong....

Today I did a signing and the comapny charged the borrower $175 for notary services. They paid me $75. I didn't say anything to anyone, I am just doing my griping here. Thanks for listening and letting me vent.

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/25/06 1:35pm
Msg #140933

Why is that wrong? n/m

Reply by BP/WV on 8/25/06 1:42pm
Msg #140938

Re: Why is that wrong?

Nothing is wrong with that.

My analogy:

Wal-Mart buys products direct from the merchant at a low price. Wal-Mart then inflates a price that is passed on to the consumers. So, should the cashier that checks the customer out be entitled to a greater compensation other that what he/she agreed upon before accepting the job? No.

Reply by Joy223 on 8/25/06 1:51pm
Msg #140942

Re: Why is that wrong?

I guess I didn't think of it that way. This is another reason I like this forum. I get to hear others point of views on things. Thanks.

Reply by HARRY_PA on 8/25/06 1:52pm
Msg #140944

Re: Why is that wrong?

I agree. We accept a fee before taking the assignment and live with it. Sometimes the number on the HUD for the notary is not what the signing service or title co is paid and sometimes it is.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/25/06 2:00pm
Msg #140946

Re: Why is that wrong?

You are right Harry.
Same with Closing Cost on the HUD.
A title company I act as a signing service for called me the other week to ask me not to use a certain notary again. I was surprised as this notary is a good signing agent and I always use her when I can. Apparently the title company couldn't get a hold of me one day - I must have been at the doctors, as otherwise I am always here during the day, so they called her direct. Unfortunately they never discussed fees, as the notary invoiced them for $250 for each signing she did for them that day - they are overnight docs, not very big packages and all were within 5 miles of her home. The closing fee on the HUD was $250 - but that also has to cover other closing costs other than the signing agent. I wish, as a signing service, I got $250 for each signing, my signing agents I use would be deliriously happy as I would be able to pay them more.

Reply by Kate/CA on 8/25/06 3:13pm
Msg #140966

Re: Why is that wrong?

Your comment " but that also has to cover other closing costs other than the signing agent"
why should it be a catch all for where the escrow offices that wants to hide other fees". This is one of the reasons these escrow companies and title companies are being investigated and end up paying these enormous fines.

In her defense, how would she know that was not what she should be charging, I'm sure she assumes that what you got. I don't think it is fair to stop using her, have you called her to re-negotiate her fee, explaining the situation and it would make the company happy also? Knowing you all these years, I know that is what you've done.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/25/06 3:36pm
Msg #140979

Re: Why is that wrong?

Kate
She is not a new signing agent and should know her fees. I am sure she doesn't usually charge that.
It is the one particular title company that has asked me to stop using her, so whether I think it is fair or not I cannot use her for that particular company.
As the arrangement on those three signings were between the title company and her I can't step in, it is up to them to sort it out between them.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/26/06 4:27am
Msg #141089

Re: Why is that wrong?

The Closing/Settlement fee is no more a "catch-all" than your own fee, and they're not "hiding" anything (unless, of course, they ARE hiding things ... but let's stick to normal/usual for this) any more than you are. What I mean is your fee covers a good many details included in the service of "closing /getting a loan signed", right? If we listed it out separately, it would be quite a list - gas, mileage, toner, paper, time, etc.

Spend a day in a title co, particularly at EOM, and you'll get to see how they earn that fee. There is a ton of work that goes into every file, far more than you might be aware of. They do the title search, they do the recording, the disbursing, the Hud (that alone is worth the fee they get - doing the Hud is usually one decent headache and 37 phone calls back/forth!). Calculate the taxes and any lien pay-offs, recording fees, make sure lender has correct wire instructions so they actually GET the funds, track their bank for THAT particular wire before they fund, post-close copies and audit and get any corrections before they can record or maybe fund I have now given myself a headache and won't continue because I'm glad to not be working inside a title office anymore but I do hope this gives you an idea of how they earn their fees.

A little more understanding = a little more empathy for the 'other guy', and that's a good thing. =)

Reply by Mike Photon on 8/25/06 4:05pm
Msg #140983

Re: Why is that wrong?

Oh well!
A friend of mine was working as a consultant, his salary was about 60K a year, which is what he had agreed to work for. Should he complain if his employer was charging his client substantially more? Damn right he should. Then he found out the billing was $175 an hour! Client is expecting from him not 60K worth, but 350K worth a year. So he demanded a big raise. Well, he got it - jump from 60K to 250K. But right after that work is over, he had to leave the company. So what the hell? He worked on that project for almost a year and made more than what he would have in 4 yrs.

So Joy, what's wrong is not that they are charging the client 175, it's that you agreed to work for 75.

If someone asks you to work for less tell them this - "If you want to pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys"

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/25/06 1:53pm
Msg #140945

Joy
In a refi there are sometimes other notaries involved. There may be documents that the company has to sign which would require notarization. We cannot assume that the notary fee is just for our notary services.
When we agree to do a signing for a certain fee and the company agrees to pay us the fee we asked for, then we really shouldn't be concerned about what they are getting, as long as we are getting what we requested.

Reply by Joy223 on 8/25/06 2:07pm
Msg #140949

You are right Sylvia.....I posted before I really thought about this. Again this is why I like this board so much.

Reply by Diga2Lin/FL on 8/25/06 2:11pm
Msg #140950

Re: This is just so wrong....BUT...

What if, as in my situation the other night, the "Notary Fee" on the HUD was payable to me - yes, my name on the HUD - then shouldn't that entire Notary Fee be payable to me or it's fraud? Borrowers are signing that the above disbursements are true and accurate, are they not?

Reply by Gary_CA on 8/25/06 2:03pm
Msg #140947

This is a wee little bit wrong...

I haven't walked in the SS's mocasins, but in other industries (computer consulting is one I know) it's about right to charge about double what you pay a contractor. Depends on your overhead and the local competition.

Every now and then there'll be a situation where they don't get paid but you expect at least a trip fee from them... that's gotta come from somewhere. And of course there's good old profit...they ain't doin' this cause they like it better than fishing.

So just guessing, I would have thought $150 would have been perfect. I'd be very very nervous if they were charging less than say $110.

$175. They had a good day, but they're not gouging.

Reply by hcampersFL on 8/25/06 2:40pm
Msg #140960

Joy I understand why it may feel that way.

Really what you must do is resolve to set your own fees and stick with them. I don't ever read what is on the HUD as it pertains to me. I get the fee that I charge or I don't do the work. If you can do this then you will be able to complete your job with a sense of satisfaction. You will feel that you are being treated fairly and getting the $$ that you are worth.
Beverly

Reply by Joy223 on 8/25/06 2:51pm
Msg #140964

Re: Joy I understand why it may feel that way.

HI Beverly,
I don't ever read the figures on the HUD either. The only way I reaslized this is that the Borrowers nephew was there and he was looking at this uncles copy. He commented on the hig price I was getting paid to do this. I never told him the difference since his comment was not directed at me but was rather talking to his uncle. Maybe I should have said something but I didn't and it is too late to do anything aobut it so I am not going to worry about it. Sometimes I feel like the less I say the better. Ever feel that way or is it just me?

Reply by Mia on 8/25/06 5:34pm
Msg #141000

Joy -- you are the one that negotiated for your fee.
Was this overnighted docs or edocs?

Just remember that once you start accepting "certain fees", it is
really hard to increase them as you get more knowledge / experience.

Reply by Joy223 on 8/25/06 5:41pm
Msg #141002

It was suppose to be over night docs. Fed Ex cioudn't find my house and I ended up driving to pick them up which wasn't out of the way.

When a company calls me and we start talking about fees...should I be asking what they are charging the borrower? Or should I just take what they offer. Sometimes they offer more then my charge of 75 but I always ask them first what they pay. I have never accepted less then 75 or have I ever been offered any less then that. This is all so new to me so I appreciate all the feedback from those that have replied. Thanks

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/25/06 5:44pm
Msg #141004

No, you shouldn't be asking what the borrower is being charged. If it is a signing service they won't know anyway.
You can ask them what are they allowed to pay. If it is more than you were going to ask for, then that is good, if it is less you can say "I am sorry, my fee is-------" then it is up to them whether they will meet your fee or find someone else. But don't back off from your fee, once you do that they will never meet your fee.

Reply by Joy223 on 8/26/06 9:08am
Msg #141108

Thanks for the tip sylvia....I will remember this.