Posted by Barbara O on 8/5/06 1:30pm
Msg #137256

Venting ..

I just recieved my 4th phone call in 2 weeks wanting me to do an EDOC signing for $50. I quoted them my fee for the town they were talking about, told them it was another $25 standard fee for edocs, and they didn't even give me the "I have to pass it by my supervisor" line - they just said thank you and hung up. No call back. It's been happening for a while now so I check, and see there is at least one (possibly two, I never saw her name before) new notary(ies) in my area. Which means, these new notaries are actually taking these signings at at-least close to that price. I've been doing this for quite some time now and have never really run into problems with my fees before (you always get the cheapo signing co's here and there). Now suddenly, I'm being lowballed. Ugh. I know it's been said before but people.. if you are going to undercut yourself by taking $50 for an edoc signing, you're not only ruining any chance you have of ever getting more than that from that company, but you are also killing the business for every notary within 100 miles.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/5/06 2:28pm
Msg #137260

Maybe they like doing charity work...

Because at those fees...that's exactly what it is. Hang in there, Barbara... just keep the decent fee companies and let the lowballers run these people into the ground.

Reply by Christina Burns on 8/5/06 6:52pm
Msg #137282

I agree with you. When I was new I didn't know better and only charged $50.00 now I am having a hard time getting them to change that fee. I now charge $100.00 or more for edocs and $75.00 for overnightted docs. I dont know how they are making any money with gas prices the way they are. Be patient and those newbies will learn. I wish I had known more before setting my fees. Maybe try contacting these notaries and letting them know what the standard fees are, that's how I learned. I talked with other signing agents in my area and upped my fees. I was happy for any advice from more experienced agents.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 8/6/06 6:55am
Msg #137309

Be careful!

Price fixing is illegal. If all the gas station owners in an area agree that gas will be sold for $4.25 per gallon, or the convenience stores agree that milk will be $5.50 per gallon, or ..., then that's price fixing and illegal.

If I tell you that I charge $dd.cc for overnight docs and $DD.CC for edocs and let you make your own mind up, then that's business.

People who do edocs for $50 will be out of business soon (but never soon enough).

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/6/06 9:39am
Msg #137323

Price fixing agrmnts include those agring not to adv prices

Price fixing agreements also include those agreeing not to advertise prices.

The whole purpose of price fixing law is to keep consumers from being colluded against. In our situation, this law is being used against the ultimate consumer because of eliminating quality work, or the selection of an experienced notary, because of the greed of the middle man who, for the most part, is ill-prepared to be involved in the process anyhow. The notary signing service who brings this to the attention of the DOJ just might find out that more will come to light than they want to deal with. Just my thoughts on it.

Let's discuss this.

I have posted a link below so partakers can educate themselves. I have also posted the salient points.

In our special situation the actual consumers (bwrs) are not paying more or less dependent on our prices. The lenders are also our consumers and they are not paying more or less. The middle man is the one losing out if we do not accept $50.00 fees. Some may say that the middle man who jumps in to get a cut is also a consumer.

However, it seems to me that in the worst of our situations, the middle man is the one who jumps in to fix OUR prices. Yes, I understand that this is not the same thing, however, our industry is a bit different in that the glut of the product (us) on the market being perpetrated upon us by notary manufacturers.

We are often threatened that if we do not accept the middle man price, we will not be allowed to bid. (If you do not accept this amount this time, you will be removed from our database and not allowed to participate further in the bid process.) This also removes free enterprise in a sense, so it seems to me.

I *will* say this. If a notary is ignorant and has not educated themselves enough to know what their costs are in Texas, and if they are taking their jobs at $50, I hope they do at least one each day and run the wheels off their vehicle at that price. At the end of a month, 20 signings, 500-1000 pages faxed back, four to eight tail-chewings, and $250 in a gas bill, they'll neither have the money, or the will to continue this business long at that set fee. They will hate it.

I will be happy because that will remove them from my landscape. In the mean time, while they run hither and yon, fax back, and stress over $300 (6 x $50), I will move my car twice for appointments and make the same money...yes, the better paying clients will find my competition's schedule clogged with garbage signings which are yielding the signer $8 per hour for lots of stress, bullying and bull. (Now mind you, I am in Tx where even "equity" loans are massive.)


=====================

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/211578.htm

Price fixing can take many forms, and any agreement that restricts price competition violates the law. Other examples of price-fixing agreements include those to:

Establish or adhere to price discounts.

Hold prices firm.

Eliminate or reduce discounts.

Adopt a standard formula for computing prices.

Maintain certain price differentials between different types, sizes, or quantities of products.

Adhere to a minimum fee or price schedule.

Fix credit terms.

Not advertise prices.

In many cases, participants in a price-fixing conspiracy also establish some type of policing mechanism to make sure that everyone adheres to the agreement.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/6/06 9:53am
Msg #137324

Re: Price fixing - another thing...

Why can't a notary mention or advertise a fee on a board? The source I cited indicates that publishing prices are common.

From: http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/211578.htm

**Some bids are much higher than published price lists, previous bids by the same firms, or engineering cost estimates. **

No premier Notary Manufacturing Plant and Gear Distributor has taken the lead to organize notaries so that they can *communicate* properly on industry networking and discussion. I do not think that's an oversight, quite frankly. Through the internet, and communities such as this, we have organized ourselves into networks and forum communities in order to learn from each other and upgrade our professionalism.

Reply by ewing2surf on 8/6/06 12:12pm
Msg #137337

Re: Price fixing - another thing...

That did happen a little over 5 years ago Brenda. But the owner of the organization had other plans for us.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 8/6/06 1:17pm
Msg #137346

Re: Price fixing - another thing...Something Else Brenda

that may be in our favor. Open any newspaper to the job sections and take a good look at the minimum experience level that many employers want for a position that is open. Do you see 2 to 3 years? The notary factories have pumped out so many newbies, that sooner or later lenders and title companies will be forced to require a minimum experience level as well.
No longer will be the days when you could get a notary commission and claim "I am a signing agent" And I think when this happens, many a middleman will fall by the wayside.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/6/06 1:28pm
Msg #137349

Re: Price fixing - another thing...Something Else Brenda

Sooner or later it will be clear that the only ones able to profit are:

1) People established now.

2) People selling stuff to those who are being taken in.

There will be a multitude of people busy as all get out, but being taken to the cleaners and fleeced. This business does not exactly operate like your standard supply and demand.

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/6/06 4:28pm
Msg #137360

Re: Price fixing agrmnts include those agring not to adv prices

Brenda, I agree 100%. I could not have said it better.

Reply by dickb/wi on 8/6/06 2:46pm
Msg #137356

you are so right.......

just ask the Realtors asscn of el paso tx what it cost a few of their members becaused they discussed commision scheds amongst each other.....many many large $ and much much jail time........it is part of the training tyhat each new Realtor must go thru......it applies to us also......

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/6/06 3:10pm
Msg #137357

Re: you are so right.......

Dickib/wi - thanks for your insight...I certainly will be interested to read up on El Paso! Thanks for the post.