Posted by mtcwgrl on 8/21/06 1:32pm
Msg #139756

What would you do?

What would you do if you were asked by the singing company to have borrowers back date RESPA doc?

Reply by HudsonBayCA on 8/21/06 1:37pm
Msg #139757

Re: What would you do? Over and Over again . . . .

This has been discussed so many times. It is illegal to backdate documents period. The fact that some notaries do and do not get caught is beyond my comprehension. I do not backdate loan documents.

Reply by mtcwgrl on 8/21/06 1:45pm
Msg #139759

Re: What would you do? Over and Over again . . . .

I KNOW it is illegal to back date documents...but this particular signing company is refusing to pay me becasue I did not. I am asking the question because since they are refusing to pay me I am going to report them to RESPA.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 8/21/06 1:48pm
Msg #139760

Re: What would you do? Over and Over again . . . .

I would report them and make it clear that they are refusing to pay you because you would not break the law and backdate for them.

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/21/06 1:52pm
Msg #139761

Re: What would you do? Over and Over again . . . .

What I'd do...
Let the signing company know that you intend to report this, and that you intend to file a complaint with the BBB and post them to the notary forums for practicing illegal actions and holding your paycheck hostage for not acting illegally on their behalf, which could result in prison, fines, and loss of your commission! I do favors here and there, but never anything that goes against notary law and backdating is against the law.
Send a demand letter (fax) to their acct'g dept letting them know they have 5 days to respond with payment, before you take the matter into your own hands.

Reply by Becca_FL on 8/21/06 1:58pm
Msg #139764

Re: What would you do? HudsonBayCa???

>>>It is illegal to backdate documents period.<<<

Not true HudsonBayCA. It is illegal for a Notary to "backdate" a Notarial certificate, but it is not illegal for the borrowers to date any document any date they wish.

Respa docs do not require a notary certificate so why are you concerned with the date? Many brokers do not get their RESPA pre-disclosures signed until the day of the closing and ask that the RESPA docs be dated the application date so that their internal files are compliant.

Reply by Sherri_mo on 8/21/06 2:03pm
Msg #139766

Re: What would you do? HudsonBayCa???

Thank you for pointing that out Becca, You are so right.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 8/21/06 2:06pm
Msg #139767

Becca to the rescue

I thought for a minute I was reading something wrong. Becca is 150%, WTG BECCA!

Reply by mtcwgrl on 8/21/06 2:07pm
Msg #139769

Re: What would you do? HudsonBayCa???

RESPA guidelines state that the TIL, Good Faith and Application have to be sent to the borrower 3 days from date of application. Back dating this should be a LO responsibility not a notary. So by back dating these documents you are stating that the borrower had them in their hand or they were mailed to the borrower with in 3 days of application. How would I know that? It should definatly not be a reason to not pay me.

Reply by AF on 8/21/06 2:18pm
Msg #139771

Re: What would you do? HudsonBayCa???

What you are missing here is that you (the notary) were not the one (back)dating the documents. The borrower dates them. Again, if it doesn't involve dating a notary certificate, it's none of our business. You should have allowed the borrower to put any date that they were instructed to on the RESPA docs.

Reply by MelissaCT on 8/21/06 2:50pm
Msg #139781

Re: I agree, AF.

I've seen plenty of times where the borrower pulls out their unsigned pre-disclosure docs form the overnight package they received way back when they first applied for the loan. They just never returned those documents signed. So, the lender includes the pre-disclosure docs again, with the loan package & requests that they be signed with a different date. I see no problem there. I'm not notarizing those...

If a borrower said they had never saw those documents before & the lender couldn't provide a tracking number to prove they were sent within the allotted timeframe, it would be the LO in trouble, not me.

That's just my opinion.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 8/21/06 2:31pm
Msg #139776

Re: What would you do? mtcwgrl

The backdating issue pertains to the documents that you notarize, and to the RTC. It is common for the application, and pre-discloures to be backdated by the borrowers to the date the actual loan process began.

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/21/06 2:26pm
Msg #139774

Re: What would you do? Becca

***Respa docs do not require a notary certificate so why are you concerned with the date? Many brokers do not get their RESPA pre-disclosures signed until the day of the closing and ask that the RESPA docs be dated the application date so that their internal files are compliant.***

Becca, I know what you're saying, but:

1. RESPA requires that borrowers receive disclosures at various times. Some disclosures spell out the costs associated with the settlement, outline lender servicing and escrow account practices and describe business relationships between settlement service providers.

2. RESPA also prohibits certain practices that increase the cost of settlement services. Section 8 of RESPA prohibits a person from giving or accepting any thing of value for referrals of settlement service business related to a federally related mortgage loan. It also prohibits a person from giving or accepting any part of a charge for services that are not performed. Section 9 of RESPA prohibits home sellers from requiring home buyers to purchase title insurance from a particular company.

RESPA in general

RESPA covers loans secured with a mortgage placed on a one-to-four family residential property. These include most purchase loans, assumptions, refinances, property improvement loans, and equity lines of credit. HUD's Office of RESPA and Interstate Land Sales is responsible for enforcing RESPA.


RESPA required disclosures:

At the time of loan application
When borrowers apply for a mortgage loan, mortgage brokers and/or lenders must give the borrowers:

a Special Information Booklet, which contains consumer information regarding various real estate settlement services. (Required for purchase transactions only) and
a Good Faith Estimate (GFE) of settlement costs, which lists the charges the buyer is likely to pay at settlement. This is only an estimate and the actual charges may differ. If a lender requires the borrower to use a particular settlement provider, then the lender must disclose this requirement on the GFE.
a Mortgage Servicing Disclosure Statement, which discloses to the borrower whether the lender intends to service the loan or transfer it to another lender. It also provides information about complaint resolution.

***If the borrowers don't get these documents at the time of application, the lender must mail them within three business days of receiving the loan application.

If the lender turns down the loan within three days, however, then RESPA does not require the lender to provide these documents.

The RESPA statute does not provide an explicit penalty for the failure to provide the Special Information Booklet, Good Faith Estimate or Mortgage Servicing Statement. However, bank regulators may choose to impose penalties on lenders who fail to comply with federal law. Please read the section on RESPA enforcement for more information.

If the lender isn't complying with Federal law, why does it filter down to the notary to go get a RESPA disclosure backdated by the borrower?

Reply by Paula Yakey on 8/21/06 2:32pm
Msg #139777

Re: What would you do? Becca

Thank You...very well said!

Reply by PAW on 8/21/06 2:51pm
Msg #139782

Re: What would you do? Becca

Quite often, the lender or broker does in fact send the pre-disclosures to the borrower, but the borrower, for whatever reason, does not sign them and return them. Thus, the lender is forced to include these documents at closing time and they must be signed and dated for the date they were initially provided.

I, on numerous occasions, have had packages with both the original 1003 as well as the final 1003 that needed to be signed. Also, broker contracts and other disclosures. It's just the lender and/or broker getting their files in compliance. It is not our (the NSA) duty to question their intention or to assume that something has or has not happened prior to the signing.

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/21/06 3:04pm
Msg #139784

Re: What would you do? Becca

***It is not our (the NSA) duty to question their intention or to assume that something has or has not happened prior to the signing.***
True, I was in broker mode. Sometimes it's hard for me to switch back and forth, also, many borrowers will say why is this different than it was and so on. They get so much paperwork and can become confused. Many don't even know/remember what their numbers are, because they haven't read everything or been fast talked into confusion. I've been asked "since you have my copies of this closing, can I throw away all the other stuff I've got since this started".

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/21/06 5:03pm
Msg #139803

Sorry Becca, luv ya G.F.! n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 8/21/06 5:15pm
Msg #139804

luv ya too G.F.! n/m

Reply by BP/WV on 8/21/06 4:32pm
Msg #139801

lol..Im a day late and a dollar short! n/m

Reply by BP/WV on 8/21/06 4:31pm
Msg #139800

Re: What would you do? Over and Over again . . . .

"It is illegal to backdate documents period."

I beg to differ, but it is not illegal to backdate documents. IT IS illegal to back date notarizations. As far as Im concerned, a borrower can put any date they want on the documents, but I will be sure my notarizations reflect the current date the borrowers appeared before me.

Reply by AF on 8/21/06 1:59pm
Msg #139765

Are you referring strictly to RESPA docs such as the TIL, GFE, 1003, etc.? Did anything need to be notarized? If not, then the date that is used is up to the lender and the borrower and whatever date they agree to use should not concern the notary. That is their business. Backdating a notary certificate, on the other hand, is of course illegal.

Reply by James Dean on 8/21/06 2:19pm
Msg #139772

Here in my state of NC, it is strickly forbidden. So I do not...

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 8/21/06 2:43pm
Msg #139780

I Thought You Died...

...in an unfortunate car accident in 1955! Your picture even bears a striking resemblance.

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/21/06 3:49pm
Msg #139794

Guys, they're RESPA docs. There's no notarization.

It isn't any of your business as a notary how the borrower dates it or what the loan officer did or didn't do. It's not within your parameters. I just make sure I'm not the one telling them to do it. I make sure the l.o. has informed them, or I show them the written instructions. If I absolutely have to verbalize it, I say "the loan officer asks that you date these XX/XX/XX.

Reply by TOMMYE R. SARDIN SARDIN on 8/21/06 5:17pm
Msg #139807

NO.

Reply by bfd110_IN on 8/21/06 7:45pm
Msg #139817

I agree not a notary responsibility for backdating. When I worked for the bank, we had switched to a new software. we instructed them that the RESPA docs had to be given or mailed (and even email is allowable nowdue to date stamps) through the new system. They absolutely hated it becuase the new system would not allow them to change the dates. After awhile the bad loan officers were let go because compliance began to write them up. If a bank is changing software to get into compliance then it is pretty serious. but your right it is not our responsible to have the customer to backdate, because the first time you do, I feel that it is fraud cause you have now asked to do something that possibly isnt correct. I have been through the RESPA audits, not pleasnt. For me though unless the date is preprinted, it's a" Please sign here and date it."