Posted by Annette_CA on 8/11/06 9:29pm
Msg #138309

excel notary at excelnotary.com

I rcvd a call from this company earlier this afternoon for a 8 pm signing. The company said they would pay an extra $25 dollars for "a few" fax backs, I asked specifically how many, she said she did not know but that it was only "a few". When the docs appeared I notice that they wanted about 1/3 of the package faxed back (well over 30 pages). I called the company back and cancelled. Anyone else experience this? Oh and BTW, the client gad been told that the signing was at 7 pm.

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 8/11/06 9:35pm
Msg #138312

I think you were right to cancel the closing. 30+ faxbacks is ridiculous. I can see maybe faxing the notarized pages, but bottom line they are such a waste of time, and as a professional I do not like to be babysat.

Reply by Sherri Schramm on 8/12/06 8:37am
Msg #138358

Annette: I would have to disagree with you on canceling this closing. The only one you are penalizing is the borrower who doesn't deserve to have his signing cancelled just because you have a problem with fax backs. This should be taken up with the signing service. I think when we as professionals commit to a signing, we should follow through and do our job. You can always keep this in mind when they call you in the future.

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/12/06 10:17am
Msg #138369

>>>I would have to disagree with you on canceling this closing. The only one you are penalizing is the borrower who doesn't deserve to have his signing cancelled just because you have a problem with fax backs. This should be taken up with the signing service. I think when we as professionals commit to a signing, we should follow through and do our job. You can always keep this in mind when they call you in the future. <<<


First of all, if I bring my car to the mechanic to have the brake pads replaced, and while doing that the mechanic sees that my rotors need to be replaced, he is going to call and see if I have the money to pay him for that.

If I tell him that I do not have the money, he is NOT going to say "Okay, well, I know you need your car, so I'll fix it anyway and keep this in mind for the next time you bring your car in."

This is a business, not a charity. It's not about what the "borrower deserves", its about making money.

Reply by Mdene_AZ on 8/12/06 10:33am
Msg #138373

I do not do faxbacks because I have spoken to Assistant Escrow people who say that is their job when they get the docs back. I notarize docs.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/13/06 10:18pm
Msg #138599

** I have spoken to Assistant Escrow people who say that is their job when they get the docs back.**

I think there is something to this. If the notary will do it, then the docs have been captured in a digital format suitable for the TC to fax for funding. It's a time saver and a bonus if it can be wrung out of the notary.

I should have ended this with a question mark, because I don't know...all I know is that only once have I faxed back a package before being allowed to drop it. All the rest of the time the fax backs were required at sometime following the signing. Dropping was to be done asap.

Reply by Poppy on 8/12/06 10:31am
Msg #138372

Although I see your point Tina and it is a good one. I'm with Sherri on this one.
Annette, how much do you charge for fax backs? Did you call and try to renegotiate? I think $25.00 is a bit much for just a few fax backs and perhaps a little low for 30. I'm not sure it was so low that it would warrant backing out of a commitment. (It does hurt the borrower and ultimately we are public servants) JMHO...

Reply by Life Saving Services - Doug on 8/12/06 10:39am
Msg #138375

Now I disagree and do not understand some peoples musunderstanding of what a business is. Yes we are public servants when someone comes to a location of our choosing for notary services only. But as a mobil notary you are a business in which you make your own policies as to the way you conduct business. If it is your policy to accept signings from companies with poor credit and to accept unreasonable demands ( in your policy ) but to follow through because we must think of the borrower ( replace borrower with children to be pc ).

As A Notary we serve the public but not as a doc signer. The companies that hire us serve the borrower and they have the obligation to follow through. If they did not flake the mobil notaries around then they would serve there clients better.

Reply by Poppy on 8/12/06 12:26pm
Msg #138401

I get business, I just don't agree with you...

"Now I disagree and do not understand some peoples musunderstanding of what a business is. Yes we are public servants when someone comes to a location of our choosing for notary services only."

I don't misunderstand business just because I don't agree with you.

"Yes we are public servants when someone comes to a location of our choosing for notary services only."

I guess it could be debatable but we are public servants as long as we hold our commission. A police officer is a police officer even when he is not in uniform. Additionally anytime you notarize a signature be it for a non loan signing doc or a doc as part of a loan signing you are acting in the capacity of a notary public and thereby in the capacity of a public servant.
(For me setting aside the whole public servant aspect of things, it's people serving people.)

"But as a mobil notary you are a business in which you make your own policies as to the way you conduct business."

Of course it's up to you to make your own policies and that is why many of us come to this board to chat and bounce opinions off of each other so that we can build hopefully sound policies. Sometimes it helps to have another outlook on things and that is what I offered.

"If it is your policy to accept signings from companies with poor credit and to accept unreasonable demands ( in your policy ) but to follow through because we must think of the borrower ( replace borrower with children to be pc )."

I have no idea how you could come to the conclusion (from anything I said) that it's my policy to accept assignments from companies with poor credit and unreasonable demands but to follow through because we must think of the borrower/children? (don't get the children thing by the way)
My policy is not to accept assignments in the first place from companies with poor credit and unreasonable demands. Once accepted it's my policy to follow through. (Do what you say and say what you do, it's simple but effective)

Obviously it's Annette's policy to accept fax backs (with an added fee). When told she would be paid an extra $25.00 for a few fax backs that sounded appealing. She was not given an exact page count but the thought of just a few fax backs for $25.00 sounded good, so she accepted the assignment without knowing for sure how many pages she would be faxing back for that $25.00 flat fee. (a good policy would have been to have a per page fee, but that could have amounted to a lot less than the $25.00 she was promised) Risk versus reward sometimes it's a good thing sometimes it's not...
Let's say 5 pages are considered a few for arguments sake, that would have been $5.00 per page I think most of us would jump at that chance.
However I'm sure if we wanted to offer fax backs as a way to bring in more business we would not be quoting $5.00 per page. (and if she had quoted the signing company $5.00 per page or whatever per page fee she wanted, they could have accepted or moved on, and the job would not have been jeopardized) Now at 30 pages that deal is .83 cents a page not as sweet without a doubt but not unreasonable either. The way around that would have been to state I charge a flat fee of $1.00/1.50 or whatever you have decided would be best for your business. Unless the chance of $25.00 for just a few pages is just to sweet to pass up, then by all means accept the assignment but don't back out when the balance of risk/reward does not lean in your favor. Signing companies are in business too, chances are that it will not lean in your favor often so complete the assignment learn from your mistake and set a per page fee next time. (But don't harm the borrower because your business plan was lacking)

JMHO (smiles)

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/12/06 10:42am
Msg #138376

>>>It does hurt the borrower and ultimately we are public servants.<<<

We are not being contracted as public servants. We are being contracted as Signing Agents.

I am a public servant when someone calls me to complete notarizations, and only notarizations.

I am not a public servant when I am hired to be a courier, print shop, and signing agent.

Reply by Mdene_AZ on 8/12/06 10:44am
Msg #138377

Good answer!

Reply by SharonMN on 8/13/06 8:50am
Msg #138535

How many signing companies offer a fax back fee up front? I sure wouldn't think it was 5 pages, which many companies will expect you to do for the base fee. In fact, I would expect it to be at least 20 pages if they offered to pay $25. If you accepted a fax-back fee and didn't negotiate the number of pages up front, I think you should have completed the signing. If the number of pages was going to be a problem, you should have notified the scheduler when you accepted the assignment ("OK, but if it's more than 10 pages I can't do it/need extra fee/you'll have to find someone else".

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/13/06 9:40am
Msg #138538

For $25.00 I would fax back 50 pages. But, then again, I don't get take much of anything from a *company* for less than $125.00 base. It would take another $25 on top of that to get me to fax back 30 pages.

And, I really don't care so much about the bwrs plight any more. Unfortunately, that's "social engineering" to lay that guilt trip on the notary. Once, when a newbie, I balked at a company for requesting multiple acks be returned and they said "oh, if this does not get done these poor people might be foreclosed upon! They might lose their home if it's not done like the lender wants it done." Like that's my problem? Get a grip. First and last signing for that group, btw.

The truth of the matter is that it is a contract bewteen me and the hiring company.

Just b/c the bwrs are nice people will not pay my bills.

If the lenders/title, etc. worked with professionals and paid them like professionals rather than running a notary reverse auction through a signing service we would not be dealing with this inane fax back crap.

If you purchase a car at the dealership and your car does not get washed on the correct day for pick up because the car detailer did not agree to the fee...see, he balked when he found out that he had to rotate the tires in addition to cleaning up the car--well, is it the car detailer's fault that the car delivery was delayed?

No. I don't think so.

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/13/06 9:52am
Msg #138540

>>>And, I really don't care so much about the bwrs plight any more. Unfortunately, that's "social engineering" to lay that guilt trip on the notary.<<<


That is 100% correct.

Get over it people. This is a business, not Romper Room!

Reply by Poppy on 8/13/06 10:24am
Msg #138546

Without borrowers your business would stink! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/13/06 10:35am
Msg #138549

Re: Without borrowers your business would stink!

How true, Poppy. Nonetheless, without payment for my services I become a full-fledged charity. I prefer to donate to needy people, not people who own, are refinancing, or buying real estate.

It's time someone started bringing forth the truth about the elephant sitting in the middle of the room. The idea that any notary should do business they are not getting paid for because a borrower might lose a rate lock is preposterous. Lenders are at the top. We are at the bottom.

We are not all THAT in the big process whether we want to believe it or not. The ones getting the most money out of each transaction is the one who is the most responsible for bearing the burden of poor choices in choosing notaries who are not professional to the point of having to fax back.

We'll just need to agree to disagree on this.

My word is good, but a business transaction is not about my word. This is between me and the folks hiring me.

Reply by Tina_MA on 8/13/06 10:59am
Msg #138555

Re: Without borrowers your business would stink!

>>>.....without payment for my services I become a full-fledged charity. I prefer to donate to needy people, not people who own, are refinancing, or buying real estate.<<<

>>>The idea that any notary should do business they are not getting paid for because a borrower might lose a rate lock is preposterous. Lenders are at the top. We are at the bottom. <<<


You said it even better this time, Brenda.

My background is in lending. Therefore, I know that the responsibility for making sure the borrowers sign before their rate lock expires does not lie with the Notary, it lies with the LO, lender, and TC.

Furthermore, I know that the rate lock can be extended, but the LO will have to take a hit for it (will have to take a cut in his commission).

None of us should not be made to feel guilty, over people we do not even know, for not jumping and doing a signing for "any old fee" because the borrowers might lose their rate lock. It is beyond ridiculous.

Reply by Poppy on 8/13/06 11:31am
Msg #138563

Re: Without borrowers your business would stink!

I don't think I disagree with you Brenda... Maybe I didn't do a good job making my point...
I think that since Annette (poor thing sure she didn't want her thread to come to this(sorry) Anyway I think that since Annette accepted the assignment knowing there would be fax backs and did not set a per page fee. She should have completed the assignment.
Yes, I do think that she owes it to more than just the signing company to keep her word and do the job she accepted. (since it affects more than just the signing company) Of course I don't think she should do it for FREE, not sure how I put that thought out there.
Let's get real here $25.00 for fax backs is not charity, even at 30+pages... Is it a good deal for 40/50/60 fax backs no so don't take the assignment.

Anyway I think I let this get out of hand, perhaps I took offense at Doug's comment... Sorry All. Not my intention to irritate...

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/13/06 4:55pm
Msg #138583

Re: Without borrowers your business would stink!

Poppy, I think that the best thing we do for posterity here is to debate one side of small issues like this to the other.

Posterity can absorb, consider and decide.

Well, if not that it keeps me from terrorizing the neighbors with unwanted visits, and feeling somewhat more significant just to have an opinion. (LOL...just keepin' it real. )

Reply by Poppy on 8/14/06 9:43am
Msg #138625

Debate is what separates us from the animals!

You never cease to make me laugh, and you're correct. I love a good debate... I think we learn and evolve from each other in this world if we're willing to listen with an open mind, bend when it makes sense to bend and when it doesn't make sense for you to bend then stand firm and remember that it's okay to be friends and not agree on all things at all times.

Take Care Brenda as always it's nice chatting with you! (smiles) Poppy

Reply by Poppy on 8/13/06 10:38am
Msg #138550

Tina,
It seems like you have a problem with people who have a different viewpoint than you. Why is that?
Brenda made her point very well and was able to do it without resorting to "Romper Room" antics.
I don't have to share Brenda's viewpoint to be able to understand it, learn from it and respect it. Isn't that what this formum is for? Maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

Reply by Annette_CA on 8/13/06 9:29pm
Msg #138598

OK OK OK, her's the deal. I asked her twice how many fax-backs there would be (I usually don't do them) and she stated she wasn't sure but it was just "a few". I asked "what would that be, about 5?" Since she had access to this information she could have been truthful but apparently chose not to be. If she had been upfront in the first place I would not have accepted the job or at least negotiated a resonable price for my troubles. If some signing companies want to do business this way then I expect notaries would cancel as this is the only way that this behaviour will stop.

Reply by Poppy on 8/14/06 10:04am
Msg #138630

Sorry Annette,
I think I kind of hijacked your post. I understand what you did and why... I think it would have been better for you in the long run to complete the assignment and adjust your business plan but that's only what I would have done and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Here's my reasoning for whatever it's worth.

I've haven't seen anything bad about Excel Notary so they must not be in the habit of taking advantage of notaries. (or they would have been nailed for it without a doubt)
You may have given up what might have been a good long term relationship for a few bucks more than the $25 they offered. (not sure what you would have charged)
Save yourself the potential of this happening again by coming up with a per page fee that works for you and quote it next time....

Good Luck and Best Wishes to you! Poppy

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/14/06 11:35am
Msg #138643

Is it just me?

I think $25 extra for 30 pages of faxbacks is more than reasonable, I'm completely missing what the big deal is here.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/14/06 12:51pm
Msg #138644

Re: Is it just me? No, not just you...I said:

**For $25.00 I would fax back 50 pages.**

On the other hand, if they are paying a decent all-inclusive fee, then I'll fax 'em back for free. (Decent does not mean $100 w/ edocs.)

Reply by Poppy on 8/14/06 6:39pm
Msg #138684

Re: Nope, me too!

I'm with you Cali, I would not have a problem with the $25.00 fee that they offered. Shoot if you have two or three of those a day it could make faxbacks an extra income source. My fax has no problem with up to 40 pages in the automatic document feeder so it's not really that time consuming for me if I multi-task and work on something else while I wait.

Anyway I'm going to call if a day, early and maybe take the kids out to dinner. I was a bad girl today and did not answer my phones so no signings tonight. I'm tired after a long night with the four year old...
Don't tell Doug or he will really think I don't understand business! ;-)
Good Night All, take care and be safe....