Posted by pan/nd on 12/2/06 12:07pm
Msg #163465

A tale of two mortgages

One mtg is a first....everything fine...borrower signed as John L. Doe..NO problem on I.D.

On the 2nd mortgage...middle initial is dropped everywhere on the docs including the mortgage..so he signed John Doe. Even vesting line of mtg says John Doe. Notarized that way too, John Doe.

Now comes the Title Co. saying it was my fault the borrower didn't put a middle initial on the 2nd mortgage and wants my permission to add it. Hey, he signed it just as it was printed.

I replied to that effect (that it appears those docs were drawn wrong from the getgo)....so we'll see what happens.

Comments please

Reply by LC/AZ on 12/2/06 12:17pm
Msg #163466

I would have done exactly as you did.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 12/2/06 12:19pm
Msg #163467

Sounds like the 2nd mtg name was a red flag and you should have contacted title Co. for direction. They would have instructed you to add the middle initial to the Mtg.? right? Just my opinion...

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/2/06 12:30pm
Msg #163472

I don't agree that it's a red flag. We are always instructed to have the documents signed exactly as printed. We are not responsible for making sure that the middle initial is supposed to be included or not if it's not listed on the docs. Sometimes the lender docs have the middle initial and the title docs for the same loan do not have the middle initial. I have the borrower sign as printed as instructed by the TC.

I agree we have some sort of responsibility for alerting the TC if there is a potential problem, such as if no Note or HUD is included with the package, then yes that is a red flag and we should contact the TC for something like that. But no middle initial on an otherwise fine set of docs? I would not have contacted the TC for that.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 12/2/06 12:36pm
Msg #163473

If you have one mortgage with middle initial and one without, I would say a phone call to TC is called for...or just have them sign as indicated and deal with the problem later.

Reply by PAW on 12/2/06 2:46pm
Msg #163490

Considering the the vesting of the mortgages and DOTs should match the vesting on title, then they should also match each other. Missing a middle initial on one document should raise a flag, maybe not red, but at least yellow.

Whenever I get an assignment, one of the first things I do, even before receiving the docs, is to check online for the property information. Primarily this is to determine where the property is located, but it also tells me who 'owns' the property. I can see how property is held and who is on title. Then when I get the docs, I can see if the names match and, if married and homestead property, that the spouse is also shown on the 'legals'. If names are wrong or missing, I call title to let them work on the issue or tell me not to worry 'bout it. If the latter, I just have things signed as prepared. (Appropriate annotations made in my records.)

Reply by thnotary_NY on 12/2/06 5:02pm
Msg #163511

I know you're in Fla., but just how do you go about checking property titles, ownership and whatever.? Or at least where I might start. Thank you

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/2/06 5:57pm
Msg #163513

I'm not PAW, but.....google "Property Appraiser" and your county, NY to see if the information is online. All the central florida county property appraisers have web sites where you can access this information. It is a good way to veryify that the name and address match and also to confirm the names as shown on the county property tax records.

Reply by PAW on 12/2/06 6:05pm
Msg #163515

Florida is very, very public. Almost TOO public! All property records are pubic records and all are scanned and made available online. (Some law enforcement and state officers can have viewing of their information blocked for obvious reasons.) I just go to the county property appraisers website and do a property search. From there, I can look at an aerial view, maps, tax info, owner info, link to the clerks office and search for deeds and mortgages. For example, here's a couple of links to property information for a couple of counties in FL: http://webserver.vcgov.org/vc_search.html -or- http://www.hcpafl.org/www/search/index.shtml

Reply by PAW on 12/2/06 6:07pm
Msg #163516

Oops, spelling error.

Third sentence should read: All property records are public records ...

Reply by LC/AZ on 12/2/06 7:41pm
Msg #163546

Re: Oops, spelling error.

As I see it, that's way above and beyond the call of duty. Trying to wear too many hats, in my opinion and only getting paid for one--the notary. If we have to police docs, be hall monitor, tell the lenders, doc prep people, title companies, whoever, how they've failed to do their job, and then do it for them, well then, we're not charging enough, are we? Just how far is a notary to go?

Reply by PAW on 12/2/06 8:45pm
Msg #163555

We wear two hats

Yes we are notaries. But, the notarial aspect is about 10% of the service we provide. We are signing agents, the eyes and ears of the closing agent. Typically, we are the only ones who have eye to eye contact with the borrowers. Just doing the minimal is fine if that's what you want to do. However, I take personal pride in my work and I also do not want any unexpected results, therefore, I do what I can. Granted, I don't "have to", but it is something I "want to do" and my clients (the title companies I work with) seem to appreciate my thoroughness. And, I am usually rewarded for my thoroughness.

Reply by LC/AZ on 12/3/06 7:53am
Msg #163597

Re: We wear two hats

Yes, PAW, in my heart, I know you are right. Going the extra mile is the right thing to do. I, too, will probably start going on line and checking the property information to see that the docs are correct. And, by the way, thanks for teaching me how to do that. You're Awesome! I guess my real issue here, is that, it seemed pan/nd was being blamed for missing the initial and I didn't think that was fair. Someone on the other end should be catching this long before the docs get to the notary. The doc prep people should have caught this; They are being paid for this job and should be held accountable--not the notary. Just my opinion.

Reply by PAW on 12/3/06 6:40pm
Msg #163667

Re: We wear two hats

Yeah, the doc prep, closing officer, title closer, whoever, probably should have caught the error and fixed it. But they didn't. Instead of spending all that energy on blaming someone, take the responsibility to resolve the issue. Once resolved, then seek restitution if you desire.

When I managed a technical service center, it was our rule that whenever a problem was presented to one of the staff members, it was their problem to own and resolve. Whether or not someone else was to blame or was responsible for the problem, the customer service rep owned the issue, period. I look at doing our job the same way. If a problem presents itself, seek resolution rather than finger pointing.

Reply by LC/AZ on 12/4/06 7:25am
Msg #163709

Re: We wear two hats

Okay, PAW, I concede. You have made a very good point.

Reply by thnotary_NY on 12/3/06 7:32am
Msg #163592

Thank you both, PAW and Teresa for your help. I'll start there.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/2/06 9:05pm
Msg #163560

Well...it comes down to this...the compliance agreement will allow them to get it fixed (re-sign) or an LPOA will allow them to fix it. It WILL be fixed...one way or the other...and I think they have already got the bwr's okay and have fixed that part where it was signed wrong.

1) They can send the documents back to you to add it yourself.

2) They may redraw the docs and send you or another out to fix it, but again, it sounds to me like they have fixed the borrower's part already...you are the only hold up.

3) They can add a middle initial to your notary certificate with your permission and be done with it.

Name your poison.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 12/2/06 10:22pm
Msg #163569

Different versions of name on docs

These are a real problem, and I run into it often. It is very sloppy work on the part of the persons preparing the various documents when you see "John Doe" on some docs and "John S. Doe" on others and "John Samuel Doe" on others, all in the same package.
I typically have the borrowers sign exactly as their name appears under the line. If there is no name printed under the line, I check the DOT and Note to see how the name appears on those documents and have the borrower sign the same way on the docs with no preprinted name.
If we start out with "John S. Doe" on the early documents, and later documents have "John Doe", I have the borrowers stay with "John S. Doe" since more is OK but less is not. I've never had any kicked back.
If you start with an initial, and later docs drop the initial, just keep on using the initial. The borrower should be consistent with the way he/she signs.