Posted by paaz on 12/16/06 11:13am
Msg #166244

Can we copy certifiy a driver's license? n/m

Reply by Dave_CA on 12/16/06 11:42am
Msg #166247

Not in CA

and I don't believe any State allows this.

Reply by John_NorCal on 12/16/06 11:45am
Msg #166248

What does your state handbook say? n/m

Reply by paaz on 12/16/06 11:46am
Msg #166249

Re: Can we copy certifiy a driver's license? In Arizona? n/m

Reply by paaz on 12/16/06 11:47am
Msg #166250

Re: Searched handbook and Law primer nada n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/06 11:48am
Msg #166251

Re: Can we copy certifiy a driver's license? PaAz

**Re: Can we copy certifiy a driver's license? In Arizona? n/m**

Did you want someone to look it up for you?

Reply by PL on 12/16/06 11:51am
Msg #166252

I saw it here on the following website and I'm sure you can

http://www.azsos.gov/business_services/notary/notary_handbook.pdf

Good luck

Reply by paaz on 12/16/06 12:04pm
Msg #166255

The SOS handbook does not specificaly list driver's license

I had read and re-read the handbook and it does not specifically address driver's license. I guess my question might be: Is a driver's license public record? Thank you for the replies.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/06 12:31pm
Msg #166258

Re: The SOS handbook does not specificaly list driver's license

Right or wrong, this is the method I use to determine if I can make a certified copy:

Can an official copy of the document or item be reproduced by a governmental agency? If yes, then I cannot certify a copy of it.

However,

(1) if someone brings me a copy of a document and
(2) writes a statement that it is a true and correct copy of that document
(3) then chooses a notarial certificate to attach

I will notarize their signature on their statement.

Reply by paaz on 12/16/06 12:59pm
Msg #166273

Thanks to everyone for your input.Great suggest Brenda THx n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/06 1:04pm
Msg #166278

Re: Thanks to everyone for your input.Great suggest Brenda THx

You're welcome...mainly, just makes sure in AZ you can certify any kind of a copy of anything before you do. One type of document we Texans can ccopy is to certify copies of on occasion is the Settlement Statement. Not all states notaries do any kind of certification.

However, I'd think just about anyone could notarize a signature where the signer has stated the ___ attached is a copy of _____.

Disclaimer: These are opinions, not fact.

Reply by PAW on 12/16/06 3:30pm
Msg #166308

Re: The SOS handbook does not specificaly list driver's lice

Florida and most other states that I'm aware of, do not consider a driver's license to be a public record. The person receives the 'original' document, i.e. driver's license, not a copy. So, according to what I read on pages 22 and 23 would allow you to make a photocopy of the DL and certify it as a copy. (Unless AZ specifically prohibits copying driver's licenses, which I do not believe they do.)

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/06 5:58pm
Msg #166338

Re: The SOS handbook does not specificaly list driver's lice

**The person receives the 'original' document, i.e. driver's license, not a copy. So, according to what I read on pages 22 and 23 would allow you to make a photocopy of the DL and certify it as a copy.**

Interesting. I think I'll just keep on avoiding certifying copies of DLs and avoid certifying copies of anything that a government agency can reproduce an *original* or a copy of.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/06 6:05pm
Msg #166341

Re: The SOS handbook does not - Clear as mud!

Clear as mud...here's what the Tx SoS says on certified copies...I am probably very conservative on this issue, but I don't want to wank with the powers that be in Texas...messy, messy job!

"Non-recordable" document is key here.

======================



MAY I MAKE A CERTIFIED COPY OF A BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR A MARRIAGE LICENSE:

No. Birth certificates and marriage licenses are recordable documents. A recordable document is one that is recorded with some type of entity whether it be the Secretary of State's Office, a court of law, a county clerk, or the Bureau of Vital Statistics. Certified copies may be obtained by contacting such entities.

>>>>A non-recordable document is one that has not been nor will ever be recorded with any type of entity. For instance, a letter is not recorded with anyone but there are times the sender of the letter would like to obtain a certified copy of that letter for his or her file. <<<<

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/06 6:20pm
Msg #166345

Re: The SOS handbook does not - Clear as mud!

Just for the heck of it, I wrote them to get a reading on this. I will let you guys know the outcome...

Greetings to Dora and my friends in Austin in the Notary Section:

Here's a quick question -

From time to time I am contacted to make a "certified copy" of a driver's license. I won't do it. Am I right or wrong?

I refuse this type of act based on

--the fact that a Texas Driver's License, while not recordable at the SOS, County Clerk's office, etc. is a document issued by a government entity.

--Further, notaries are not allowed to make ID cards.

--Finally, a notary cannot conclusively state that such an important document has not been fraudulently produced and the "certifying" act would be lending credibility where none may exist.

If you say I am wrong, I will not take issue with it but will change my practice.

The way I have handled this in the past is to say if the citizen wants to (1) write a statement that it is a true and correct copy (2) request I notarize their signature (3) choose a notarial certificate then I can notarize their statement.

Is my current practice on this accurate? Or do I need to reconsider refusing to make a "certified copy" of a Texas Driver's License.

No urgency is required of this request.

Sincerely,

Brenda Stone

Reply by PAW on 12/16/06 7:34pm
Msg #166351

Re: The SOS handbook does not - Clear as mud!

I don't see why being issued by a "government entity" has any bearing on it. The government issues lots of things that aren't recordable nor public records. For example, the Social Security Administration issues eligibility documents all the time. The recipient needs a certified copy of the eligibility letter. Would you not make and certify a copy?

The making of a certified copy does not make a document any more valid than the original and adds no credibility to the original. The statement that goes along with the certification simply states that the notary made the copy and certifies that the copy is the same as the original. Makes no statement as to the validity or authenticity of the original.

The Florida Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries (ed. 2001) states, on page 15:

The following documents can be photocopied from the original (if not officially filed or recorded) and attested to by a notary, because certified copies cannot be obtained from another public official:

Florida driver's license

Florida vehicle title

Social Security card

Diploma

Medical record

U.S. passport

Bill of sale

Contract

Lease

Resident alien card

Personal letter
The maximum fee a notary may charge for making an attested photocopy is $10.

So, at least in Florida, the FL Driver's License is not considered a recordable document nor a public record.

So, yes, I do think you need to reconsider your stance on refusing to make a "certified copy" of Texas Driver's License.

Just as as a point of reference, the TX DPS, Driver License Division does not issue copies of driver's licenses. They do issue replacements, which is an original license (document), not a copy of the initially issued original license.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/16/06 8:36pm
Msg #166360

Re: The SOS handbook does not - Clear as mud!

We shall see.

It would be grand if it's so.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 12/17/06 3:10pm
Msg #166402

Re: The SOS handbook does not - Clear as mud!

It's great that the state of Florida has thought ahead to make it possible for Notaries to make attested copies of these particular public records.

Arizona hasn't come that far yet and our Governor's Manual still takes an opposing stance so I guess that's the stance I'll have to follow until they change it.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 12/17/06 3:05pm
Msg #166401

Yes... Arizona does consider a DL to be a public record.

And the last time I checked... every other state does too.

By definition... a public record is "any record in any
form or medium, that has been made, maintained or kept on file in the
course of its official business by any State, local or regionally
funded agency, including school boards."

When you look up public records the Driver's License is considered to be the most common and is first on the list.

Brenda's way of roundabout certifying that so-and-so says it is a true copy is the ONLY way we can do it here in Arizona.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/17/06 4:33pm
Msg #166406

Re: Yes... Arizona does consider a DL to be a public record.

**Brenda's way of roundabout certifying that so-and-so says it is a true copy is the ONLY way we can do it here in Arizona.**

Angelina, I tend to agree with you.

However, I have contacted my SOS to find out if I can certify copies of TDL's. I am going to be very interested to see what they tell me. 'Til then, I'll be satisfied to err on the conservative side of things.