Posted by Bernice/CA on 12/2/06 12:33am
Msg #163435

POA

When the spouse has POA, do you complete the acknowledgement as if both persons are present?

i.e.,
personally known to me OR proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument, the person(s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.

Would you complete the Acknowledgement as if both parties are present or one?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/2/06 1:06am
Msg #163436

Go back to the beginning where it says "...before me... personally appeared..."

Reply by Joe Ewing on 12/2/06 10:37am
Msg #163456

Bernice... that was my mothers name. Who goes on the personally appeared line depends on how many pairs of shoes are standing before you acknowledging their signature and the venue is what County that the shoes are in.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/2/06 10:53am
Msg #163459

Re: POA...Skinning a cat two ways...

I think that's kind of a perplexing situation for a new person. Joe/Janet are correct, of course, but I had no one to help me with these little problems when I first started so I learned to think how to acheive accuracy at all costs. Sometimes, when you are starting out, you'll be asking a question like this from an SS employee who is not even a notary.

In this instance, I would have probably solved that problem by attaching two acks...one of signer, and one for the signer with as atty in fact. There's no problem figuring out that each of those would count for a singular pronoun. (One note: I did not ever do an extra ack...just might have split the two up to be certain I got the "his/her/their" part right.)

Whenever I did not know how to complete a form by doing A, rather than B, or B rather than A, I'd make an extra copy of it and do it both ways. Then I'd call before dropping the package and find out which they wanted.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 12/2/06 10:59am
Msg #163461

Re: POA...Skinning a cat two ways...

Ha! Signer and signer as Attorney in Fact. That's OK Texas... right? No can do in Cali cause of the capacity rule.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/2/06 3:03pm
Msg #163494

Re: POA...Skinning a cat two ways...AIF Certif, Joe

I supposed you were mocking me because I would mention them (1) as self and (2) as attorney in fact for someone else. Mock away...when I do an AIF, I say it like:

"....appeared before me Bonnie Blue and William Blue by Bonnie Blue, his attorney-in-fact."

The deed recorder's office is looking for a notarization of both signatures so that's what they get...it all matches up nice and neat.

Here's the statutory form:

State of Texas
County of _______________

This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of attorney-in-fact) as attorney-in-fact on behalf of (name of principal).



______________________
Notary Public's Signature

----------->as far as capacity, we can address that also, but we do not have to<---------
Here is another statutory form verifying capacity...we usually do not use this, but opt for a plain ack completed correctly with capacity stated. Yes, Texas CAN say that the person has sworn to capacity, or state capacity. The notary is not certifying capacity, but be clear about what has transpired.

State of Texas
County of _______________

_______________, personally appeared before me, and being first duly sworn declared that he/she signed the foregoing in the capacity designated, if any, and further states that he/she has read the above and the statements therein contained are true.



______________________
Notary Public's Signature



(Personalized Seal)

Reply by PAW on 12/2/06 2:33pm
Msg #163487

Re: POA...Skinning a cat two ways...

With a POA, there are only two parties: Principal (grantor) and Attorney-in-Fact (grantee). Typically, only the principal signs as they are the ones granting the power. The Attorney-in-Fact is the recipient of the power and typically does not sign the Power of Attorney. The acknowledgment is based on who signs the document as long as they are in your presence and acknowledge they signed the instrument. (The AIF may be present, but usually does not sign the POA.)

Using the POA during a signing, means that the AIF is the one signing the document for the principal and has the power to obligate the principal as specified in the POA. Therefore, when the signer is the AIF, it is the signer's signature that is being acknowledged, not the principal's, since he/she did not sign the document in question, and probably was not there to sign.

The final obstacle is how the acknowledgment is worded. Some states, such as FL, require the capacity of the signer (as Attorney-in-Fact) be stated in the notary certificate. Other states, such as CA, do not allow a capacity to be included in the certificate. The notary must know their own state laws, practices and procedures for instances like this.

Finally, there's the issue about the AIF taking an oath for the principal. According to our Secretary of State (FL), direction by numerous attorneys, and my own non-legal interpretation, a person cannot take an oath (and therefore cannot swear or affirm to facts) for someone else. Thus documents such as the Signature/Name Affidavit cannot be signed by the AIF since the signer is swearing (or affirming) to facts that the principal (named on the document) must attest to under oath. The POA only grants the AIF to obligate the principal, not to make statements concerning facts for the principal that the AIF may not even know to be true.