Posted by DD/OR on 12/3/06 1:00pm
Msg #163621
Payment options!
I'm considering giving companys an option as far as paying my fee. I'm sick and tired of being cheated out of my fee by scam signing services and title companys. More than that... I'm scared that more & more crooked companys are jumping on the bandwagon to take advantage of us knowing full well they have no intention of paying us. And getting away with it. So, here's my plan. When a company calls and we agree on everything, I will tell them to pay 1/2 up front (overnight it) and the balance when escrow closes. If they don't agree, I don't do it. There are several companys I do this with...they pay full fee up front. (Not SS or Title co's.) One is a RE investor who pays full fee up front. If ALL notaries get tough, it WILL make a difference. After all it is our business and we have the right to run it any way we see fit. I don't like companys dictating to me when or IF they will pay me. In the first place, I think its insane to extend credit to anyone that I don't know, in the hopes they might pay me. Its no wonder the companys show no respect for us notaries. They're laughing at us all the way to the bank. Any thoughts on this?
| Reply by SueW/Tn on 12/3/06 1:22pm
Msg #163623
I must admit this idea sounds wonderful and kudos to you if you have clients that follow your program. My opinion is that as long as there's new SA's doing sloppy work this system won't work as a whole. Walking in the clients shoes, what guarantee do they have that you're even going to do the job and how do they recover if you don't? I have been an independent contractor for 20 years and you must have a proven track record with them before you can expect payment up front.
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 1:52pm
Msg #163625
Sue, no you don't. I didn't have a track record with my 'pay up-front' clients. I got the idea from my first one. She called out of the blue and asked me for my service. I asked her how she intends to pay me. She said the client who I notarized for, would pay me. And so, an idea was born. I have done quite a few like this. I have been moving away from signing services and title companys that insist on doing business their way. I still accept a few from Titles, although I'm more choosey, but I'm always uneasy about it. Some Title companys won't pay if loan doesn't close. Some are as crooked as SS. I refuse to give my work away anymore. I'm targeting the kind of businesses that will pay me up-front. And definately not SS or Title co.
| Reply by anotary4all on 12/3/06 3:48pm
Msg #163643
I've always been paid and I hope I continue to be blessed that way. None of the companys I work for would pay up front, they would rather go down their list to the next signing agent and that would leave me without work.
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 4:03pm
Msg #163647
You mean go down the list to the next $50 notary. Cheapo low-ballers call me all the time. I laugh at them before I turn them down. I don't want them calling me and wasting my time. I guess its up to the individual notary as to how much they value themselves. I place a high value on myself and my work.
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 2:04pm
Msg #163627
Oh I forgot to add... I would rather the company take the risk than me. The company takes less risk and has more resources and help at their disposal than notaries do. If a notary doesn't do the job he/she was hired to do and collects, that is a big NO-NO. She can not only lose her commission but its jail time. On the other hand, if the notary does the job and doesn't get paid, its business as usual for the company. They don't lose a thing. So, tell me, who has the most to lose here? I think we all know the answer to that one.
| Reply by kathy/ca on 12/3/06 7:59pm
Msg #163680
"She cannot only lose her commission but its jail time".....
whenever I see this on the board, I think, if this is true, what the heck are we doing taking that risk for $150, $250, doesnt even matter the amount, if we could have to hire an attorney to defend ourselves and spend lots of money OR even be sent to jail? My thoughts are that if we dont get involved in anything illegal or fraudulent, this should not be a concern of ours. Am I being naieve (sp)? Any thoughts on the subject?
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 8:51pm
Msg #163682
Re: "She cannot only lose her commission but its jail time".....
Kathy, you misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about the average notary that does service first and then gets paid, maybe. I was talking about getting paid First before going on assignment. Generally speaking, I was referring to any notary taking an assignment, collecting the money FIRST and then not going to the assignment. (I'm sure notaries would not do this as the repercussions are too great.) I was talking about getting paid by companys first BEFORE we go on assignment as they have less to lose than a notary. But there's a better way and that is to have BO pay us.
| Reply by sue_pa on 12/4/06 7:47am
Msg #163711
Re: "She cannot only lose her commission but its jail time".....
I always see the 'jail' fear also and I think that unless there is a huge amoutn of intentional fraud most notaries won't end up in jail for anything - perhaps lose their commission, fines, civil remedies, etc., but not jail.
HOWEVER, and I have not looked into this, an attorney laughingly told me the other week that I had better be sure I did my identification of signers properly because under the Patriot Act letting an 'unwanted' slip by is treason, punishable by death .
| Reply by PL on 12/3/06 2:46pm
Msg #163634
3+ years and never been beat out of anything, except Loansigners Inc. of which I am still waiting. Along with that an average outstanding rate of less then 20 days on receivables, I'll stick with the status quo.
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 3:42pm
Msg #163642
You work for $50.00 - $60.00 cheapo companys. Sure, they know they have a good thing going with you. You work twice as hard as I do and for less money. I value my work more than that. Have a good one.
| Reply by SueW/Tn on 12/3/06 4:17pm
Msg #163648
Actually DD this whole thread is remarkable "out there"
You're throwing stones at others saying they work for lowballers and they're not as experienced as you. You say you don't work for SS companies and you seem to feel that you're far superior with your experience hence your nasty comments. You have posted about being owed money by Chris (an SS), you've asked basic questions about returning docs (anyone that gets paid up front from Title and Lender should know where the docs are to be returned to). Maybe you'd just LIKE to charge first and work later, on your whim, as you say "working smarter and not harder".
| Reply by PL on 12/3/06 5:42pm
Msg #163659
Wow. What's it like to be such a pompous a**?
If you have such a hard time collecting on your debts, perhaps you should go back to Big lots and ask for your job back, if they'll have you. I do very well on my side of the Columbia working for what I consider to be fair terms. It's to bad I don't go further into Oregon, it would be a pleasure to compete against you and listen to you whine when your business goes south. Good luck on your Paypal strategy, pal.
| Reply by Ndwa on 12/4/06 11:38am
Msg #163745
Re: Wow. What's it like to be such a pompous a**?
That must be it, I've been asked to go south often.
| Reply by MikeC/NY on 12/3/06 6:59pm
Msg #163673
Time out...
Why are you attacking this person? How do you know what type of companies he or she works for? All I see is a message saying that after 3+ years in business - in whatever way this person chooses to do business - there are no problems. Why is that a bad thing?
Sometimes when a person can't defend their own position, they choose to use an "ad hominem" argument - attacking the opponent personally in an an attempt to divert attention away from the facts. I think that's what we're looking at here. If you want to be taken seriously, do yourself (and us) a favor and address the facts rather than the personalities. All you've managed to say so far is "I'm right, and anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot."
| Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 12/3/06 4:29pm
Msg #163651
Re: Payment options!DD/OR How do you feel about discussing
with the client that hires you, you will need to collect your fee from the borrower at the table and the borrower will be reimbursed when the loan funds. Keep in mind when the appraiser comes and appraisers the home the borrower pays the appraiser, they are told in advance and therefore they are paid when they arrive, with no questions asked. We could also remind the borrower up front when we call to confirm the appointment that a fee of x amount of dollars will need to be paid to me and the lender will be reimbursing you when the loan funds. I seriously doubt the lender would screw over the borrower the way the lender does the notary.
I have been considering this for some time, keep in mind I have always been able to collect, currently have 2 at the moment that I'm pursuing for payment but still less then 30 days. I DD believe as you, this is my business and I will run it as I see fit. I get calls all the time for the desperate lender, once he finds you he is so happy and at ease at last for finding a notary at the last minute to seal the deal for him or her. Then after the deal is sealed, 30 days pass, you haven't been paid and they won't even return your phone calls.
Now this in my mind would not apply to the parties that pay on time and/or I have never had issues with be it a ss or title, they can remain as they are, if their payment history is good.
I just feel as a notary I'm at the mercy of the caller, I really no longer want to be that way. I have nothing to lose by deciding to run my business this way, if they elect not to do business with me for me wanting to collect my payment up front, I'm ok with that, rather then in the end give my time and efforts and skills away for free, when I can't collect and worse then not collecting to me is the stress chasing dollars creates for me.....probably because I'm anal.....
I have been thinking of this for sometime and more so as the holiday season approaches and money will be tighter for all, we will most likely be delayed by payment even more by the way some folks choose to run their business.
Again the notary needs to be up front when the lender calls for the notary, simply started I will require payment at the table from borrower and it will be up to you to reimburse them.....a one can be honest as to how this came about, due to the notary being stiffed or having to chase their dollars.
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 4:49pm
Msg #163655
Re: Payment options!DD/OR How do you feel about discussing
Amen to that. I feel exactly the same way as you. In my opinion, we have everything to gain and nothing to lose. As I said, I've already started down this path. I'm weeding out the weeds. I've done several loans lately where there was a page the BO had to sign, stating that if BO cancelled the loan, he would have to pay the notary fee. Maybe we could have BO sign a statement of ours to the effect that they would be responsible for our fee as soon as loan closes and/or if cancelled for any reason. Well, its a start. Any more suggestions, Anybody?
| Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 12/3/06 5:00pm
Msg #163657
Re: DD, I feel my job will be completed with the borrower
after I have sent the package off or left the residence whichever the case, if the loan does not fund it is of no concern to me. I'm sorry but when the appraiser completes his or her work , he is done also, it is of no concern to him whether the loan funds or not.
If the borrower decides to not sign and this should also be made clear to the borrower prior to your arrival, if they decide to not sign, you the notary will need to arrive at a fee you could live with and the borrower would have no issues with either, this again would need to be stateded up front... to the lender and the borrower, now one might run into some canceled checks but then again the borrower can chase the money owed them from the lender and would probaly have better luck. The lender may mind if the borrower trashes their name more the notary trashes the lender name on a message board. Again this does not apply to the ss or title that have a good pay history.
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 5:33pm
Msg #163658
Re: DD, I feel my job will be completed with the borrower
Arrowhead, thanks for that. It sounds good to me. I'm going to do it. What do I have to lose? I've been turning them down anyway. From now on, instead of turning them down, I'll tell them my conditions. If they need me bad enough, they will go along. If not, I've lost nothing. Arrowhead, are you going to do it? I'll post results as they happen. Everything to gain and nothing to lose.
| Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 12/3/06 6:09pm
Msg #163662
Re: Yes DD I will begin this week, the first call I get from
a company unknown to me and this will also include ss that have a no pay or slow pay history(to me is anything more then 30 days) unacceptable for me. I do think for many, we will get hang ups which I'm prepared for. I turned down perhaps 6-8 companies last week, so instead of turning them down, I will offer them my new option payment plan, if they don't want it they may turn me down and I'll be prepared. I must also add I do have an alternative income source so for me the loss is not as great as for those that this may be their sole source of income. I really do want better and more control over my business...... I do not want to invoice any more companies more then 2-3 times. Enough complaining on my part, I need to act instead of complaining.....
| Reply by DD/OR on 12/3/06 6:21pm
Msg #163664
Re: Yes DD I will begin this week, the first call I get from
Susan, my thoughts exactly. I'll keep you updated.
| Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 12/4/06 9:00pm
Msg #163858
DD, scam signing services won't last because WE (collectively) will report them and not work for them. As for the 1/2 pay upfront, that's a little too much accounting for me, a little trust goes a long way. If you have not heard of a company, check the ripoff list and Better Business Bureau first if you are worried. Good luck!
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